Anyone following the Greek implosion?
  • So what the heck happens if they default? What are some simple likely scenarios for their possible decisions?
  • Who wants to graduate to nojobland.
  • To be honest, it's hard to argue the EU and the Eurozone as a whole has been anything but a success. This recession revealed some definite faults and kinks that need to be worked out. But it doesn't exactly damn the entire institution. There are financial problems that need to be tackled, but they can be tackled with greater integration and financial oversight.
  • HAHAHA. The EU, a success? Some funny shit.

    Greece is screwed whichever way it goes.

    I'll put money on France joining the shit list in the not too distant future. The French and the Brits did some naughties with Canadian monies. There's a reason Carney is head of the BOE.

    GEFM, for the love of fuck dude, it's not all hunky dory! Your optimism and faith in this rotted global economy is at shill-worthy levels. The coming crash is inevitable. You can ignore the math, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring the math. The global markets are a complete fiction at this point, and the currency war is full steam ahead. There's only one way this ends. The same way it always ends.
  • There always might be a catastrophe, but I'm with you, goodenough, doomsayers have been doomsaying since I was a kid.
  • Well, Greece defaulted on a 1.7 billion Euro payment. First time a developed nation has stiffed the IMF.
  • Are you forgetting when the doomsayers have been right? Every bubble (and there's been a few now) have been predicted by these "doomsayers", all of whom were mocked and ridiculed before the crashes, and swept under the rugs after, so ass clowns like Bernanke can get on TV and say "Nobody could have seen it coming".

    The whole "Europe hasn't seen war since the EU" is only 20 years worth, and not true anyway. And I guess the domestic civil strife means nothing within the EU? Hardly a happy family.

    I don't have to wait. The crash is here. Only fools can't see it. We never recovered from Lehman, and all that shit is still in the system. Not only that, but no lessons have been learned. The global economy now is in worse shape than it was when Lehman went down. It's only a matter of time.

    Democracy in the EU? Are you kidding?

    Have you ever heard the quote about a man going broke slowly at first, and then suddenly all at once? The USA has 18 trillion in debt. Do you seriously believe that will ever be paid back? Deutschbank is exposed to close to 100x Greece's GDP in derivatives. Do you see a happy ending there?

    You know the Great Depression wasn't referred to as such until after it was over, right? Go tell the people in Greece that there's been no crash in our generation. Or the people in Cyprus. Or the people in Ireland. Or Iceland. Or Portugal. Or Spain. Or Italy. Or so many other non-EU countries. Go tell them how awesome the non-crashing economy is.

    Why do you think China is being such a pain in the ass recently? Why are they and their allies buying every ounce of gold they can find? Why the founding of the AIIB? Why are they targetting the dollar for assassination as the #1 reserve currency any chance they get? Do you have the slightest idea what is happening here?

    Wake up and smell the shit you are shovelling dude. For your own sake.

    "There is no incoming global catastrophe". I'll have to laugh at you now for that one, because when it does come, I doubt I'll have time to come to NoobToob and say "I told you so". But yeah, what would I know? I'm sure you have all these problems accounted for and solutions at hand, at 25 years old. You are unresearched, and sound like your economic studies begin and end with Krugman.

    Oh, and by the way, check out the history of non-backed fiat currencies and get back to me with how long they survive. And then explain to me why "this time is different".

  • The value of gold is just as imaginary as anything else. There is a finite amount, but the value assigned per unit is completely flexible and is just as subject to human opinion as what we all think a dollar is worth. Certainly pegging your currency to gold makes it harder to expand your money supply but manipulation is still more than possible. It is also important to realize that many crises were caused by not enough money. Having control of your money supply is crucial to have in control of your economy.
  • “Everything's fine, this I know,
    For Paul Krugman tells me so”.

    This will be my final post before I “walk off in a huff” as westsw likes to put it.

    Let's examine:

    The “doomsayer” theory: Things will continue to get worse until an eventual POP moment.

    The “fairy dust salesman” theory: Recovery is just around the corner! We just need MORE government and MORE integration and MORE regulations.

    Now, given I'm clearly a “doomsayer” and you lads are clearly selling fairy dust, tell me, which theory has been holding more water? The IMF economic forecasts have been disastrously and hilariously wrong in their recovery predictions, yet because the crash hasn't happened yet, I'm the fake?

    Lay some data on me. I dare you. You know as well as I do that you're words are hollow, and you're shooting blanks. You also know I will destroy you if you even try to bring some numbers my way, so you don't. Instead I'm a doomsayer, and you “don't know what to say”. Of course you don't, because you got nothin'. I can say in reply though that if you think things have improved, you have your head up your ass.

    You see why I regard you as morons and can't resist a chuckle?

    In my corner I have data, evidence, my prediction from years ago that the EU would continue going to shit and has done coming true; and in your corner you have....Hope. Faith. Happy Feelings. And petulant declarations of “there will be no crash” even as it all falls down around your ears.

    You are the Creationists in this debate, whereas I'm bringing math to the table.

    Ironic really considering how leftists tend to claim they love science and math when dealing with religion, but abandon it completely with economics, or even feminism (oh, and apparently heterosexual relationships are a social construct now too. LMFAO).

    But I digress.

    Now as for economics, and my philosophy, and why I “walk off in a huff” allow me to shed some light on all these things, as they are all connected to money. Or more precisely, my time, which as the old saying goes “is money”.

    Those pieces of paper in your wallet, those numbers in your bank account, and those gold bars in the safe, are not money. Your time is money. You have a finite life and how you choose to spend it is up to you. When you spend that time in the service of others you get paid for it in some form (hopefully). What those pieces of paper in your wallet REALLY are is a physical manifestation of time -of a part of your finite life- that you have given up in exchange for them.

    This is why non-backed fiat currencies are always going to fail, and why they always have, and why you should ridicule proponents of a purely cashless society as much as you can, because if there's no restrictions at all on the money supply beyond how many 0's Mr Libtard PhD would like to click into existence, rampant inflation will always follow. History has shown this time and time again. And what do we say about people who ignore history?

    So when I “walk off in a huff” it's not because I'm out of things to say or because you've won the debate or anything like that. It's simply a combination of me realizing a lost cause, me not particularly caring ultimately what happens to you as a result of your willingly ignorant beliefs, and my time being finite. I just don't have any time left to give you (unless you'd like to send some money to my Paypal, then I will entertain your idiocy until your heart's content). And this, is the last 10 minutes you get from me.

    Enjoy your cognitive dissonance. Enjoy ignoring history. Enjoy playing games instead of learning a thing or two about how the world works. It's your time, and your choice. But don't come crying later.

  • 90 percent insults, 10 percent relevant statements. That is quite good for the flibster. Normally it is just a stream of insults. Many many economic disasters have occurred with gold backed currencies. The idea that modern currency is somehow uniquely vulnerable is disproven by any grip on history. Since coming off the gold standard, the U.S. has had economic growth the likes of which no one had ever seen until recent China, which also does not use a gold standard. If the U.S. had an economic disaster on par with the Great Depression, you would still have to call non gold backed currency a grand success. If you contract by a third after expanding orders of magnitude, that math is impossible to argue with.

    The only folks who seem to argue for the gold standard seem to be fringe libertarians. Not even Rand Paul is pushing this hard anymore. Looking at history, the gold standard was constrive even in the nineteenth century. WJB and his cross of gold speech and all that. If the dollar were backed by however much of the 170000 tons of gold on Earth, that the U.S. could lay it's hands on, then dollar value gold ends up at is truly imaginary. The M3 number is at 10 trillion, so you end up in seven figures of dollars per ounce.

    In terms of doomsaying, I am talking Great Depression or better. People have been predicting a massive economic crash since at least the seventies. On a long enough time line, a massive economic crash will occur, but if you predict it for most of a human lifetime, and are wrong, I am unimpressed. Like a hypochondriac who finally gets cancer at 68, and thinks that proves their lifelong suspicions.
  • Not to mention, gold basically caused the great depression. US and French central banks start holding gold, do not introduce more currency into the system. Voila! Massive deflationary pressure from 1928-1931. Countries had less access to gold and thus reduced the money supply. Economic crash. Other factors contributed. Gold was the most guilty.
  • Wait a minute, I changed my mind. If gold were a cool seven million an once, then we would be headed to the asteroid belt in no time. Granted, it would be a flatly insane reason to go into space, but gold lust got Europeans to cross oceans before. I am sorry, getting us into space for real real is more important to me than rational economic policy.

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