Are we being sold incomplete games on purpose?
  • Something that has continually annoyed me this generation is downloadable content and the question of whether we are purposefully being sold incomplete games or being forced to buy content that should be free just for being console gamers. There are obviously advantages to DLC with titles such as Rock Band and Guitar Hero 3 giving valid reasons for the extra charge with new musical content each week, specifically in the case of Rock Band. But why are PC gamers being given content for free while us console gamers are continually charge for it. There is no real justification for it, look to Call of Duty 4, Mass Effect or Team Fortress 2 for examples all making console gamers pay for additional content while PC gamers get it for free. Does it really cost that much more for developers to produce the same content for the consoles or are we all just a bunch of mugs? Asking no questions and not taking a stand…

    Is this all just another method to squeeze even more money out of the console gamer? Will we begin to see a trend of even more games being ‘incomplete’ at launch with that all important added story, map, character, etc costing the gamer even more money. There are clear advantages to some DLC but why are games not being developed to the max giving gamers all content at launch like we have seen in all previous generations?
  • Microsoft likes money.
  • I don't have a problem paying for content when I like the game it's for. The problem is that more and more games are charging you to simply unlock the content in-game. Prime examples are Soul Calibur IV, Beautiful Katamari and Dance Dance Revolution Universe. I do also agree that games are becoming more incomplete and more DLC becoming available is not always a good sign.

    image Peace out, yow!
  • I hate the fact that games are becoming far to simple and incompetent to play now, everything is about image, it just HAS to look good, no longer does the gameplay, storyline, puzzles, adventure come into play anymore. It's a shit time I tell ya!!!

    But there is hope with games like Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Call of Duty, God of War 3, etc. (this is all speculation of course) that will be very successful and will be looked at by other companies and a domino effect should come around for other games to be based more on gameplay than looks.

    It's this whole goddam age and generation of people, I hate it. Where image is far more important than pure talent, now I might be going off on a tangent but take music for example. Before music was all about talent, about the music, where the guitar, drums, bass and other instruments of the band took the souls and hearts of the listeners, it didn't matter what they looked like. Bands like Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Hendrix, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Metallica were kings because they could play the shit out of their instruments and they were all about the music and fukin with shit to make new and interesting sounds that blew the minds out of the people. If you could play you were a god among your peers. Nowadays music has taken a step back, image and the look of the artist is now far more important than anything else anymore, music has taken a step back and publicity has taken a step forward and it angers me when I see that songs are making the top of the charts because that person has made enough "noise" to be noticed and to get people to buy their shit based on their look instead of their musical talent.

    That's exactly what is happening with gaming! Gameplay, good old fashion fun, thrill, that chill you get in the back of your neck from playing and creative complexity has taken a step back for graphical imagery, texutres, advertising ability, and simplicity. It's a damn shame to see this happen but as I mentioned before there are those that have both style and gameplay and I hope that more companies recognize that they are losing touch with their audience and take that step back and remember why they wanted to get into games in the first place....for the fun and excitement of achieving something that takes time and all your mental resources to complete. All we can do is hope and wait for change and hope that it doesn't continue the path as music has...
  • Like all things DLC can be used for good and evil.

    In most cases that I've encountered the game felt complete and the additional material was mostly in the form of multi-player maps and other add on material. None of it a HUGE deal.

    But, of course, the temptation to sell just the shell of a game and then micro-transact your customers against the wall will certainly always be there for the big companies.

    But, I think the fact that people are only going to buy just so much of it will keep them in line for a bit. Frankly, I have yet to BUY DLC (except for really cool Pinball machines on Pinball FX, but that's just me). Nothing in the form of DLC has really impressed me enough to buy to add on to my retail games.

    Now one DLC bit that just PISSED me off was the inability to play the Hulk in Marvel Ultimate Alliance right out the box. Now, many people don't know this, but I am a LIFELONG Hulk fan.

    I borrowed this game, from my brother, to see if I wanted to buy it. I found out you either had to Download the update to get the Hulk or buy the gold edition of the game and that sealed the deal for me. No BUY!

    I will only buy the new one if I can play the Hulk right out of the BOX. His inclusion in the art and clips from the new one indicate that a LOT of people felt this way. Thus people, smartly, voted with their wallets.

    That is ultimately how you kill the DLC beast.

    -Ray
  • In cases like COD4, Halo and some other IP's I see it as fine. The games are polished and it's not really that big of a deal, unless it's on the disc. But when it comes to games like GTA4 and other unpolished games... No fucking way am I dropping money on something that didn't produce a superbly polished game. That's me though.

    As long as they don't get too greedy I don't mind. I'm looking at you Guitar Hero.
  • DLC unlockable on disc via payment is by far the worst crime any developer can be accused of, short of horse armor.

    Yw
  • yuzo said:
    DLC unlockable on disc via payment is by far the worst crime any developer can be accused of, short of horse armor.

    Yw


    Agreed!

    If I buy a game, I better get the whole game from the disc RIGHT out of the box.

    -Ray
  • As Tobin and Yuzo have said several times on the show, companies will charge money when they can. If people are willing to pay, the developers are going to charge money. As you say Raskit, it does have something to do with being console gamers instead of PC. In the PC domain gamers are used to having a huge amount of free content, either from user-made mods and maps or from patches to fix, improve or add to the game. Console gamers are more used to paying for everything they get, and as with the COD4 map pack, people are still willing to pay for extra content even when they know it's free on PC.

    To be honest I'm quite surprised that Valve aren't charging for their updates to TF2 on PC, but I suppose it's because they're releasing them piecemeal and charging would get hideously complicated. For the 360 version where the updates are going to be lumped together, it makes charging easier. Still, Criterion are managing to significantly add to Burnout Paradise at no extra cost to us, so why will people have to pay for new stuff for the Orange Box?

    And I totally agree with Yuzo's point that paying to unlock stuff on the disc is the biggest joke. I'm also entirely against companies holding back material so that they can charge for it later (like the additional costumes for Ninja Gaiden 2 which were ready before the game launched). It's all very well to pay extra for new content in the game that the developer puts some effort in to after the game is finished (e.g. Mass Effect's Bring Down the Sky), but it's simply wrong to deliberately hold stuff back.

    A trend I'm liking is the advent of the expanded retail versions of games. Marvel Ultimate Alliance eventually came out with a Gold Edition which included the DLC, as did Overlord with Raising Hell. Sure it sucks a bit for people with the original version having to pay more, but at least new players get a good deal out of it.
  • We actually covered this issue a little bit in the second Community Profile:
    http://www.noobtoob.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5674

    Cowlauncher and I share the same view: Paying for shit already on a disc..that's messed up.
  • Isn't it rather dangerous for the developers to put Pay to Unlock content on disc with things like gamesharks and stuff floating around? If you can give your player 999999 HP, whats to stop you from just changing the boolean that determines if you have the content or not? (Yes, I do know it has to be more complicated than this, but still)
  • Well in relation to console games it is excruitiatingly hard to crack them. Long gone are the simple days when you could hack the psone, these next gen consoles have alot more security. Not ot say it's impossible but the developers are pretty safe to put pay to unlock content on discs, though like yuzo said, it is by far the worst crime in gaming. How can you honestly charge people for things on the CD when your average game costs £40/$50?

    Though the games developers aren't really to blame for this since most of the money a game makes is taken by the publisher (Yes you EA), 8/10 the games developers are told that they need to include additional content for the publishers to sell, same applies for DLC's (Guitar Hero being a good example).
  • I have one word to say...or game to say.

    Its the best un finished game ever. Jurassic Park: Trespasser!

    Why was it sent out super duper unfinished? They ran out of time...they just had to ship it out. Now I don't get how the video game business work but they did tried for a short while to make patches...but the sales weren't their and it just didn't happen.

    Overall a game company I guess might be forced to release a game before its done. It happens...I guess.
  • God damn publishers, they will become the death of gaming as we know it. No longer is gaming about gaming anymore, it has to have an appeal. Then they just slap a large price tag on it. Then after that they milk the teet of the product with other additional content and that's a joke. What we gamers need to do to take a stand is to basically tell those people that we cannot take it anymore, if they want to play that way then we can fight back by just not buying the content that they send out. Eventually they will have to do what the public wants and make a change....*Whew :oops: * good to let that out. Time for nap...
  • ya, I've noticed that a lot of the games do that but i think there starting to learn that if its free for 1 it has to be free for all
  • Yer all games developers get deadlines slapped on them. We get told time and time again on my course that we have to be good at hitting deadlines since publishers will set deadliens for games. For the most part publishers will be happy to have a game out as long as it's workable and can be fixed up with patches after release, then they'll move onto the next game thier releasing.
  • yuzo said:
    DLC unlockable on disc via payment is by far the worst crime any developer can be accused of, short of horse armor.

    Yw


    Lol, someone played Oblivion.
  • I think we're all in more or less agreement here: downloaded content that's on the disk is blasphemy. It's just a way for them to rip you off, pad their pockets, and make them feel like their cocks are bigger than yours.

    DLC of new stuff I'm a bit mixed about. Yeah, it's pretty jacked up that they charge console gamers while giving it out to PC gamers. My only guess as to how they justify this is that gaming-quality PCs have INSANE pricetags, as in multiple thousand dollars, so they give it to the PC gamers for nothing because they feel bad they had to buy this all-powerful machine that thinks millions of times faster than you can.

    As for console gamers, you're getting your gaming platform rather cheaply. $350 for a 360 may sound like a lot, but it's better than $600 for a BASIC PC that can barely hold water in the market. What I don't get is why the actual games themselves are also more expensive on consoles. I was looking at prices for Mercenaries 2 and the PS3 and 360 versions are 60 bucks, and the PC version is 50.

    Okay, that's all I've got.

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