PlayStation 4.5
  • More and more rumors are swirling about a mid generation Sony upgrade. Microsoft as well has hinted at upgradable hardware. What do we think about that? What do we think it will be? Is it real?

    I think if it real, and all the software does not work well on both PS4 and PS 4.5, Sony is going to piss people off out of their minds. I will be pissed and I am a horrible Sony fanboy. If it is real, and only does 4k gaming, and better frame rates, and better streaming and better PS VR; I will likely not be offended, but I sure might not get one. The paradox, from my point of view, is that in order to be worth buying, it would functionally have to be a new console, which 3 years out is too soon.

    Maybe I am not the target demo. Apple proved you can get a subset of folks to buy a new version of the same gizmo every year. Maybe PS4.5 is for richer or more impulsive people who have to have the latest doodar. I dunno. My fear is that PS VR will be geared for this thing, and the software for that will bifurcate, but I am purposefully trying to describe my dividing line on this totally theoretical console. What do others think?

  • Here's some new news:

    [quote]Price is currently $399.99 they were discussing a better CPU which would raise the price to $499.99 we were guaranteed the price will be no higher than $499.99 (He mentioned the CPU upgrade quite a bit almost as if they haven't really decided on a final spec could be a pricing issue.) also there is currently no plan for any type of trade in program for current PS4 users but that could change. 

    They stated that the GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster. They did not say exactly how fast but that is was running at a higher clock speed while being much smaller than the original. 

    It will have a 4k blu ray player and will upscale games that are not natively 4k. 

    Also there was talk of some sort of VR lounge for the media player app which is supposed to be getting a substantial upgrade. 

    It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance. 

    It was also made very clear that current games would not be getting any type of performance upgrades by being played on the system and any benefits to older games would come via patch per game and per developer. When asked if this was going to happen the response was "Its a possibility but doubtful with the exception of a handful of games." 
    We were also given a list of games that will be available at launch that will directly take advantage of the PS4K where the differences are and I will quote him "Significant."

    For the PSVR

    Eve Valkyrie 
    Robinson 
    GT Sport

    For the PS4K

    Deep Down (Thought this was dead)
    GOW4 (This was the exact abbreviation on the sheet I can only assume its god of war 4)[/quote]
  • Well my quoting sucks shit. But... If they go $499 that is a terrible, terrible idea. And I don't have much faith they'll continue making games work on PS4 if they're having over a 2x powerful GPU. That fuckin' sucks, in a way, because you're gonna get that divide. It's just gonna happen.

    Also kinda stinks to see that current games won't get any kind of performance enhancements. That would have been pretty great.

    I just don't know about this. $399 is a must to me. Even then that's a tough sell.
  • They haven't made anywhere near enough games for the PS4 to justify a PS4.5. PS4 so far has been a HD remake machine, with a smattering of decent original titles tossed in. Putting their hand out for another $4-500 so soon? They may as well take their dicks out and slap us in the face with them.
    Noobied by 1sloth
  • If they were to make the PS4K fully backwards compatable with PS1/PS2 games, digital and discs I think I'd bite. I also hate dividing between, 2 systems, blah.
    Noobied by 1sloth
  • They have no reason to make it back compat with PS1 and PS2 since they sell those, emulated, on their store. So they won't.

    So now  you get remasters of CURRENT games instead of last gen. Great.
  • Hmmm, not sure what to think about this, obviously they are doing a hardware revision to cope with their VR. (Maybe to compete with the Nintendo NX)

    Mid cycle upgrades I would consider being problematic. But if this gives PS4 owners better franerates in already released titles then wow that is some well needed improvements. ( I just hope they don't lock out the new cores / clocks etc for older titles although sounds like they will have to. ) .

    Kick in the teeth for current PS4 owners, but if the the upgrade is released and if it is a worthwhile purchase though :/ (which I doubt it would be unless you are desperate for VR) .

    Personally if I was a games console designer. I would use really high end hardware designed to last for a long time and take massive losses on the console ( and rely on game sales completely for a period). Eventually, over time, the price of manufacturing will get to a point where they are making a profit off the console in the future. I understand this is way too much of a risk compared to the current console cycle model/system in place, but it would massively increase the the length of the cycle.

    I am not enjoying the idea of PS4;5 and New 3DS, it hurts consumers such as early adopters who are most likely their biggest fans.

    @Sunflower You are completely right about the divide, their is no way that this will not be an issue. If they start selling HD re-releases for current gen titles released on their earlier current gen console PS4 ouch, that is beyond shit.
  • As long as the PS4.5 is just a more powerful version of the PS4 that functions the same as the PS4 i have no problem with it, if it is a completely different system  than the normal PS4 then no.
  • @Epke Yeah I agree. Its a good way not to aggrieve PS4 owners, unusual move. But necessary extra horsepower for VR. But it would be great if it improved upon the frames of previous games.
  • GiantBomb.com are reporting that the PS4.5/PS4K is codenamed Neo and the specs compared to the current PS4 are:

    Original PS4
    CPU - 8 Jaguar Cores at 1.6 GHz
    GPU AMD GCN, 18 CUs at 800 MHz
    Memory - 8 GB GDDR5, 176 GB/s

    NEO
    CPU - 8 Jaguar Cores at 2.1 GHz
    GPU - Improved AMD GCN, 36 CUs at 911 MHz
    Memory - 8 GB GDDR5, 218 GB/s

    Noobied by 1sloth
  • I really don't know how I feel about this. I will always want the best that's on offer so I will have to get the NEO I just really hope that Sony do some make good for PS4 owners I bought my console on release day. Dodgy eject button and all.

    I'd love some option to give them a £100 and my old PS4 for a NEO or something along those lines. I really don't wanna shell out another £350 for a slightly more powerful machine. Especially if all that's gonna happen is a slightly higher frame rate.

    I mean....I will. I just don't want to.
  • I'd be surprised if an actually significant amount of people are willing to fork over all the money again, although maybe they're also counting on some first time buyers, since we're still relatively early in the cycle.
  • It seems like such a relatively small improvement. The number of pre E3 leaks and press events this year will be insane. No way the big 3 all unveil new consoles, and PS VR, all brand new at E3.
  • Seems like a hard sell to have both VR and NEO on the table the same year.
  • I agree, especially if they frame the Neo as the "real" PSVR machine. That would just suck the air out of PSVR being cheaper. It would still be cheaper, but the PR would stink.

    Maybe the Neo is just a ploy to make Sony 4k TVs more attractive. Who knows. I sure want a new TV. But I sure do not need one. You know it's getting bad when you secretly wish your 4 year old would break the TV. It would be like when I blame the baby for my copious gas. Pro tip guys, if you have a baby in your lap, you can fart all you like. The secret joys of parenting.
  • Looking at those specs its like...

    A 30% increase to CPU load,
    there are more than double the cuda units which is a huge graphical processing improvement,
    and I'm totally confused with the ram bandwidth upgrade without actually increasing the ram.

    It looks like they're keeping the amount of textures/graphical things loaded about the same but found that the previous bandwidth was underwhelming so now we can actually run things more to the upper limits without a shitty choke point.

    I think the CPU increase is for 4K streaming / media / physics and calculation based gaming elements.
    I think the cuda bump is for making shitty to mid-tier VR environments more efficient, as well as more anti-aliasing and effects in current games.
    And the ram bandwidth upgrade is the minimal required for the two above.

    ---

    I don't know. I'm so underwhlemed by these specs. Remember when the PS3 launched? It was like this crazy 7 core thing with a monster GPU back when we only have 2 core, overheating SLI PCs. It was amazing because of how efficient it integrated its components. It was like APUs before they were even a thing but mass marketed and an actual product.

    It just seems like the PS4.5 is playing bare minimum catch up. I guess they've got pricing to consider and I guess its suicide for Sony to ever do a $600USD/$1000AUD console again.

    ---

    I will probably buy one.
    Because I bought the New 3DS.

    ---

    If I had a current PS4, I wouldn't be too worried and looking at these specs, future games will definitely work. The point of games isn't always graphical fidelity or concurrent physics objects - things like soundtrack and story will always win out. Journey/The Last of Us on the PS4 is no more enjoyable than its PS3 counter part even if the render distance is bumped up and there's more terrain/particle effects.
  • Thing is, I don't see this solving ANY problems for Sony. So, it's there, its upgraded - what good does that actually do for them? I got nothing. It does very little good and a lot of bad. The restrictions they have based on policy just hurts development, too.

    "Sony seems committed to keeping the NEO and the original PS4 player bases connected. As such, there will be no NEO-only games, and Sony will not let developers separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN. Likewise, Sony explicitly and repeatedly states that developers cannot offer exclusive gameplay options or special unlockables for NEO players—so don’t expect NEO owners to get a level editor or a special Rocket League car that you won’t have access to on your original PS4. That said, so long as both systems have the same feature, the NEO can run an improved version. A local co-op game that features four players on the base PS4 could offer an eight player co-op mode on the NEO, for instance. But again, don't expect those differences to transfer to online modes.

    PS4 Base and NEO versions of a game will also need to have parity with regard to peripheral support. So don’t expect NEO Games to have exclusive VR modes. Sony makes no mention of PlayStation VR in the docs we've seen, so it's hard to know what that means for the persistent rumors that this upgraded PS4 will be able to support PSVR without the "breakout box" that the headset ships with. That said, so long as the NEO's upgrades apply to PSVR games, developers should be able to get even more performance out of Sony's VR headset."


    I just don't see it doing anything aside from hamstringing current and upcoming titles in inconvenient ways. Devs aren't allowed to really go for it due to policy, and while that's nice for PS4 owners, it leaves me wondering...why?

  • Digital Foundry did a good video on the reported specs


  • I'm almost more interested in what the steps after this are.  Is the Playstation now a stable platform with gradual iterations closer to the phone model?  Or is this going to be one of only one or two mild upgrades before PS5?

    It's funny, because I was just getting the feeling that both consoles were building enough of a head of steam for me to almost be able to justify buying one, but now everything's back up in the air and I feel like getting one or the other now would be a bit of a mistake until the future for both of them becomes a bit clearer.

    Rewind to a couple of years ago and the XB1 and PS4 had just launched and I bought my first PS3...now, Sony and Microsoft are talking up mid-life upgrades to both consoles and I'm awaiting the delivery of a nearly-new WiiU.  I basically can't be trusted with my own money...
    Noobied by 1sloth
  • Why aren't you on the PC train, Egg? Tradition?
  • Yeah, I've never owned a gaming-capable PC, but I have kind of made my mind up that when I do finally make the jump from last-gen consoles it'll be to PC.  Building and maintaining a reasonable-level machine seems a lot less scary than it did 10ish years ago, and I think I can see a way that I could fit a PC into our current house either as an under-TV box or in the room we use as an office with some kind of HDMI magic to pass out to the TV for couch gaming.

    And Forza 7 will be PC apparently, so yay!
  • A phone model for consoles would be bananas. At least phones you can get "free" with a contract. It's a diffused payment option. Game companies sort of have a similar service built in already with their internet services, but upgrades every couple years to consoles would be extremely prohibitive at current costs, and the sweetspot for a gaming service plan would probably be much lower than a phone, considering you're not using data. That would be a huge risk for whoever makes the jump first.

    As an aside, consoles are becoming more like PCs anyways. Or at least, they're latching on to some of the negatives without the positives. Booted up my PS4 for the first time in awhile a couple weeks back. The game I was set to play had a 7gb update to install. So much for plug-and-play.
  • Egg, Forza 6 Apex is PC as well. Think about it pal.
  • So what is an off the shelf model that is worth it? I am never putting a PC together.
  • Whatever is on sale if you're buying pre-made. There are almost always some form of online coupons being offered for the likes of HP/Dell/Lenovo/etc., that you can plug in and save 10-20%. Amazon also has a huge selection of premades that are worth browsing. Compare across a few different vendors and find the best deal. Generally speaking, Intel processors are better but more expensive than AMD. Same with Nvidia cards vs. AMD. Eschewing SSDs for now will keep the price lower. Avoiding really obnoxious looking rigs will save you money AND prevent you from looking like a tool. What you get and how long it lasts depends on budget, but generally speaking if you're willing to pay a bit more now to get a decent power supply and processor, you can easily keep your PC running for years - with 2 minute upgrades that even someone inundated with kids 24/7 can do - of the RAM and graphics card down the line.
  • @westsw It doesn't seem too hard to build a PC. I've never done it, but like Littleg said, it doesn't seem so bad now. There are sites with builds and areas on reddit like /r/buildapc or /r/buildmeapc. PCMasterRace/wiki/builds
    If you still just don't want to touch the insides, maybe someone will throw the parts together for you. just don't get ripped off.
    Around BlackFriday last year I saw a low-mid range Steam Machine go on sell for cheap, it was a tiny bit less than the parts would have costed to buy and build. but it was sold out fast as hell.

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