Tolerance and Acceptance in the Gaming Community
  • You'd have to have been hiding under a rock to not notice the news about feminism in gaming this year. From that, sprang a movement to recognize, tolerate and accept people of all genders, sexual orientations, and races into our forums, games and lives.

    Personally, I'm glad to see it.

    Today, a thing happened with subtle use of language on twitter, and I'm going to post it here because I think it makes a very valid point.

    https://twitter.com/sojournermike/status/549803650684837888 < Michael Garcia and Ms. Wu on the plight of trans people.

    Notice Wu's comments about 'we' as gamers and the gaming community treat transgendered people, and how it is 'unconscionable.'

    Notice Mr. Garcia's reply about how 'our' hobby can be cruel and how it is 'our' problem.

    To me that says these people recognize a problem, ostensibly of intolerance and lack of acceptance throughout the gaming community, and are trying everything they can to understand, and then repair it.

    I want to know your thoughts on this display of ownership.

    What do you think about the fact that it seems we as a world gaming community are taking steps to correct issues within the community?

    Earlier this year, people talked about the death of gaming and 'gamers'. And then there were people who said 'No, I'm a nice person, and I like games, and I consider myself a gamer. The term gamer isn't dead; your stereotypes are incorrect.'

    Do you think that as a community, we are beginning to grow up and act more responsibly?

    There's so many questions I could ask. But we're here, and opinions are like a**holes (everyone has one), so.... let's have at!


  • Noobies for boobies.
    Noobied by 1Manio
  • Before I give my overall thoughts, I do want to preface this with the fact that I'm confounded by the number of geek/nerds who find it acceptable to ostracize anyone who wants to partake in the culture. Generally speaking, geeks and nerds have been put-down, bullied, demonized, and debased by the masses for decades; we're finally getting to the point in which the mainstream wants to be part of our world, and we tell them to fuck off? That's asinine if you ask me.

    Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I do have some issues in regards to how all of this has played out. I detest the idea of labels because that kind of communion takes individual thought and makes it part of the greater whole. This is why I generally don't label myself as an atheist anymore, not because I believe in any kind of deity now, but because individuals like Bill Maher are given more credibility than morality focused atheists like Penn Jillette. The same problem happens in all facets of thought/life; one bad apple can ruin the entire bunch. 

    I feel like a similar thing has happened within the gaming community over the last year. I don't think most gamer's are detestable, nefarious people who hate women, or any other group of people. I don't think gamergate was inherently anti-women. I do believe that there are some horrible people who attached themselves to the conversation who are misogynists and did in fact send out threats, but they were not the whole of the group, and it's unconscionable that anyone who plaster an entire group of people for their own personal gain; it's no different than those who we're viciously threatening women online. Wrong is wrong, regardless of which act is more reprehensible. 

    The way in which we currently approach these issues are stifling to the overall discussion. Each side tries to demonize and stigmatize the other, therefore taking away any and all credibility, leaving us with nothing to talk about. There are some things going on that are objectively wrong and we do need to fix them, but before an entire community can take responsibility for any of these issues, we must first learn how to effectively talk about them. Ad hominem gets us nowhere, and allowing the few narcissists to control the conversation stunts any possible growth; we have to be better than that.

    At the end of the day, I think it has to come down to personal responsibility. When you see someone online, or in your everyday life being crude or bigoted to any particular grouping of people, call them on it. Ask them why they are being so hateful and tell them why it's the wrong thing to do. You won't be censoring, you'll be opening up a dialogue that will ostensibly lead to them being less obtuse in their worldview, and more accepting of other people. To put it simply, follow the old noobtoob adage: "Don't be a Dick."
    Noobied by 1tallchick
  • Here's my take on the whole equality among gamers deal. I may not be liked for it, but here it is.

    I never hear or see any kind of inequality in the gaming community, anywhere except in the US. There's a lot of bad stuff I've read about that's going on over there, but I never hear about any of that happening on this side of the pond. And I don't know if it is the reason, but I think it's to do with peoples tolerance in terms of being offended and taking things too seriously. Like there was that story of that female games developer who slept with someone working for a review site, and her home address got posted up on twitter so people could go there and throw bricks at her house to the point she had to move out. And that's just nuts, taking things completely over the line.

    For me, I don't care what gender you are, what race you are, where you come from, your religion, sexual orientation or shoe size, the only thing that matters to me is whether or not you're a cunt. Because if you're a nice person, I don't care about the rest, let's go play some games. And that's what all the communities I'm a part of do. Whether it's my little community of friends, or people here on the forums, that's the expectation and that's the bar that's set. I don't see many people go below that bar, and that's just the way things are in life, there's always going to be a few muppets that give the community a bad name. But I do notice most of them are over in the states.
  • I think this is even a bigger load of horse shit than gamers being misogynists. "Tranny bashed by homphobic gamers"; there's a headline I've never seen.

    And how would anyone know another player is transgender online? Unless the username is TrannyJeff or he keeps saying things like "Come on darlings, show me your dicks" to the other players, how in the name of fuck would anyone even know their sexual orientation/preferences/genital hardware?

    Latham mentioned ostracism above and how he can't fathom it. I don't think it exists personally-which I'll get to in a bit- but I don't have to stretch my imagination too far to envision why it might happen. A social group that's been ostracised and ridiculed for decades suddenly finds their "turf" imposed upon. Why would fighting fire with the fire these people know so well be so unimaginable?

    But like I said, I don't think it's that anyway. I see this more of a porn issue. Consider this if you will: men read Playboy. Men love Playboy. But then women come along and say "put naked men in Playboy", and then the LGBT Big Gay Sandwich Brigade come along and say "put chicks with dicks in there too", and the men respond "But then it wouldn't be Playboy anymore! And I don't want to see that sort of stuff!"

    Well, it turns out the free market has the solution. Girls get guy mags, gays get gay mags, and men kept their Playboys. And the bisexuals? Those fuckers were happy as pigs in shit with all the choices they had.

    Why can this not be applied to gaming? If there is the market demand for such games, by all means knock yourselves out making them! You stand to make a fortune, right? Just don't ask me to foot the bill for it. I'd like to play the games I like, and I will gladly put down cash for those, and you are free to the same. If you don't think your demographic can support such games alone, then there is your true answer as to why your group remains unattended to. It isn't because gamers are rampant bigots and neanderthals who hate women and gays. It's simply because the people dropping the cash on these games want things THEY can relate to, as women and gays want games they can relate to as well. Brilliant! Go make them, sell them, live long, and prosper. Just don't expect me to play them too. Tolerance goes both ways.

    And finally, about all these women-hater gamers, and to wrap up the ostracism tangent provided by Latham; for decades gamers were derided as losers and men who couldn't "get" women, now apparently these men hate women. Please make up your fucking mind! We either desperately want a girlfriend, but suck so bad that the only option left are fantasies in dark bedrooms, or we are all psychopaths fantasizing about carving bitches up with steak knives, after using them for non-consensual sex of course. But in either case, whatever portrayal of gamer men you choose to run with, it says more about you than us.
  • I think the porn comparison breaks down instantly. The Earth is awash in porn so diverse it is disturbing. Fetishes exist today that were, quite frankly, impossible ten years ago. Games continue in classic genres. Meathead marines and Nintendo suck up money with the same stuff, year after year. Sunny and others loved Wolfenstein above all, for goodness sake.

    I have changed some of my gaming habits based on values. I played a great deal of GTA4. I did not like who I became when I played. Driving on the sidewalk is a real time saver. You bumped into me so I shoot you in the head. I can kill a hooker. I probably will never play GTA5 or beyond. It does not make you do these things but the world is slanted into sociopathy training. You know one thing I love about Fallout? You can't shoot kids.

    Market forces will have a massive impact, but it is important to not worship the market. Market forces would never have pushed for child labor laws or the voting rights act. Greed is a strong motivator, not a moral one.

    In terms of the community, I don't play much multiplayer. I am not much good, but the frequency with which "faggot" gets said makes competitive stuff that much less attractive. I agree most gamer gaters did not threaten women. But you know what? Very few objected vocally to those threats. They were denied or downplayed. It was like a drunk racist at a party where zero of his friends take him aside. Those buddies get to own some of that.
    Noobied by 1tallchick
  • What you wrote about porn only reinforces what I wrote, far from breaking it down. The porn exists because there is a market for it, a market of paying customers. If the same is true for gaming then let the women/gays/whatevers learn to code, get some cash, and build up their own gaming genres/series to support, play, and enjoy, just as we did. I never said they could have their lefty progressive paradise of LGBT feminist games tomorrow. Effort and hard work will be necessary. It'd impress me far more than these current tantrums of entitlement. I'm hearing a lot of whining, but not seeing much flash of coin or game coding toil coming from anywhere. 

    You just joined the "video games are creating sociopathic killers" loon train with what you said about GTA4. I have neither the time nor patience to even bother going down that retarded road.

    I don't think you understand what the market is. Child labor laws and voting rights came from the market and technological advancement -which also came from the market. The market of ideas. Markets are not limited to tangible objects.


    Noobied by 1tallchick
  • Other art forms have niche audiences, they make art for minority consumers.  Movies, books, etc. they all create stuff for small markets.  Video games just don't seem to do that as much.  Either market forces are not working, or the audience is as uniform as the product.  If the audience is that uniform, that obviously powerful, then the audience should ask itself why it is so enormously threatened by the mere discussion of more diversity.

    I do find some games creepy.  I do not think video games create killers in and of themselves.  I never said that.  If you want to create straw men to argue with, your bathroom mirror awaits.  You are on that retarded road alone.  I am not advocating for censorship.  GTA5 has every right to exist, as do mass school shooting simulators.  The latter, I would put into the same art file as simulated snuff films.  Some art is reprehensible.  I am allowed to say that without it threatening your freedoms.  Again, some gamers are so threatened by any discussion of their favorite art form that they react to any opinion at variance with their own as you have.

    The market was going to desegregate the American south, never.  Why would a majority cede advantage to a minority?  It is never in their market interest.  If you are playing a game and can prevent a quarter of the players from ever being able to compete with you before the game begins, you would always do that, if your only motivator is is market forces.  Any true capitalist is trying to eliminate competition and thereby increase their chances of success.

    The market was going to push for child labor laws, never.  One of the cheapest labor forces in history.  Requires less food than adults and cannot rebel.
  • The whole fake feminists invading games is pissing me off, Why are they not attacking Formula one or Motorbike racing all those males and those sexy girls before the start it's soo misogynist!

    If they are so worried about the games, start a gaming company and start making feminist approved games or take over the Japanese model where they have games from cute cuddley stuff to rape games, from Super sentai to boy on boy visual novels for girls.

    Instead of attacking male gamers and publishers with cherry picked points from games and taking them out of context.
  • To be fair, I think within games there are some issues. But it's not really about the games it's the values that people have, and that spreads into all kinds of media. I know lots of people complain about game of thrones how in terms of nudity it's all tits and fanny and no dicks, or how female characters from the books have been replaced by male characters.

    The thing for me is, it's not something that is going to be fixed by getting publishers to make games for girls. They just need to do more little tweaks to put more gender equality into games. There are many games developers who already do that so it's not like I'm saying wholesale changes have to be made. But maybe we could do with more good female characters, maybe we could do with more female main characters. I mean I couldn't name you 10 female main playable characters unless you included RPGs where you get to choose your gender.
  • Here's an odd thing - despite being into games pretty much my whole life and also being at the older end of the Gamer spectrum, I don't really recall ever coming up against this mass ostracism and mockery of video game fans that everyone keeps referencing and which seems to have sowed the seeds for the siege mentality that some people adopted in the wake of the 'Gamers are Dead' articles that came out in the middle of the year.

    Sure, occasionally you'd get mainstream media types making references to basement-dwelling, girl-fearing spotty nerds etc etc etc, but even back then that just sounded like the clueless insult-slinging of people out of touch with a form of entertainment that an entire generation had embraced and claimed as their own - more laughable than hurtful.  

    Nowadays we have a British Prime Minister who claims to play games on his phone; a game industry that launches triple-A titles with marketing to rival any Summer Blockbuster movie; games pitched at kids, at housewives, at couples, at young men, at young women...and with that increased diversity of people engaging in games there's going to be more scrutiny on what the medium contains and an increased potential for disagreement (that might potentially turn into conflict...).  I think that chimes with Lapham's point about homogeneity in the gaming culture and labels - if ever there was a single definition of what it means to be a gamer, it certainly doesn't exist now.  It also made me nod my head when Dr F said 'Tolerance goes both ways", modern gaming looks like it does now because it includes so many different people and we can't spend decades saying 'No, don't look down your nose at me, gaming is a legitimate medium" but then get upset that more demographics are now involved in it.

    The notion of tolerance and equality in gaming touches on so many topics though, most of which have already come up in this thread:  Is the industry itself that makes the games an equal-opportunity environment?  Are the products of that industry entirely respectful and representative of all genders/colours/orientations etc etc?  Is the way that people passionate about games behave towards each other in groups or one-to-one similarly respectful?

    I can't answer the first question as I don't work in it, certainly E3 stage presentations tend to be sausage-fests, but that's not to say that there isn't a strong representation of women at game devs - in short, I dunno.

    I'm sure everyone has an opinion on question two, as well - I'd say things are changing on that front and whilst things are dominated by bald-headed space marine power-fantasies (just like movies), there is variety there if you go looking for it (just like movies).  Our medium is maturing and going through growing pains - maybe it could happen faster, maybe it doesn't need to.  I'm not entirely sure.

    Question three seems the easiest to answer with a straight 'No', however.  This year has been a pretty depressing time to try and engage with gaming through any form of social media, with insults, threats, doxxing, swatting (whatever that is) becoming part of any debate.  Given that this was the year that people ended up in court over threats that they delivered via Twitter to Caroline Criado (who was campaigning to get Jane Austen featured on the £5 note - i.e. nothing to do with gaming) I don't think that type of behaviour is exclusive to our hobby, but we can hardly say that it shows anybody involved in a positive light.  Again, and of course, that isn't to say that everyone behaves that way, but it's very hard to ignore when it's so in your face the whole time.

    On that point, I'd like to share a personal experience from the middle of this year (in the blessed, peaceful, sun-kissed months before GamerGate).  Giant Bomb had finally managed to recruit two members of their editorial/production staff and proudly unveiled them to the world: Dan Ryckert and Jason Oestricher.  There was a quick backlash of people pointing out that two more white dudes wasn't going to do much to broaden their profile relative to their audience, most vocally by gaming journalist Leigh Alexander.  Some of GB's community felt they had to go to bat for their guys so started harassing the people who criticised the hirings and stuff got ugly for a bit.

    Now, I'd kind of ignored Leigh Alexander ever since she appeared on the GB E3 coverage a few years back whilst a bit drunk and had come across a little loud and obnoxious.  Turns out I was wrong to do so, as her popping back up on my radar caused me to track down some of her writing, which I actually quite enjoyed.  One of the things she wrote also caused me to realise that pretty much everyone I followed on Twitter to do with gaming was a bloke and as a result I started trying to broaden my gaming reading a little bit (challenging enough with such restricted time), but I do at least now feel like I have a better understanding of the things that frustrate gamers, developers and journalists with different backgrounds to my own.

    I'm sorry for such a long, rambling post.  I'm not entirely sure what my point was a lot of the time, particularly the last story bit.  DBAD, I guess?  

    Oh yeah, there was one other thing I meant to mention - @ashgooner noobies for boobies, eh?  I'd forgotten all about that.

    P.S.  I've seen a couple of people saying 'if people feel gaming doesn't represent them, why don't they start making their own games?'.  Brianna Wu (the woman TC links to in the OP of this thread) is head of her own game studio, GamerGate was started because a woman with depression made a game about depression.  I honestly don't know what to tell you. 
    Noobied by 1tallchick
  • So Gamergate was started because a woman with depression made a game about depression huh?

    Who needs facts when you have your narrative? You people aren't even remotely interested in reality. And I know better than to waste key strokes on idiots and ideologues.

    Done with thread. Toodles.
  • The Internet Artistocrat videos that were smeared all over the walls of the NT forums like some kind of dirty protest made it very clear that the core issue for some at the start of what came to be called GamerGate was Zoe Quinn, Depression Quest and what she had or hadn't done in order for it to gain positive coverage.  So no, you're right GG didn't start solely because she made the game, but it was a core part of it.  

    Still, you want to take one brief sentence from a long, reasonably balanced post and pitch a fit over it?  Go for your life, son.
    Noobied by 1tallchick
  • Zoe Quinn is the symptom the whole gamer gate is about the Games news agency being in bed with the gaming companies and ignoring the journalistic values, then those sites started to make it all about feminist issues, especially polygon with its constant male issues in the gaming industry drivel.  
  • Entertainment Tonight is in bed with the movies it covers. All the ads are bought by the entertainment industry.

    Cooking magazines are in bed with food industry. All the ads are bought by the food industry.

    Car Magazines are often straight up owned by car companies because they exist to sell cars. Also, all the ads are for cars.

    If there is a "Mining Weekly", it is in bed with the mining industry cuz who buys the ads?

    All the ads on IGN are bought by video game companies. Who advertises on Giant Bomb?

    Video game "journalism" exists to sell games. It is in bed with the industry upon which it feeds off of and markets. By definition, it is in bed. This is not a surprise to anyone who thinks about this. Video game "journalism" is NOT The New York Times. For people who often talk about how the market will see to this you guys seem remarkably dim about how video game "journalism" makes its money (spoilers: advertising) and what that means about their motives.

    What drew me to Noobtoob? They said AssCreed one kinda sucked. I thought it sure did and wondered why no one else said that. Noobtoob makes no money, so no motive to lie. How many crap games and overhyped monsters has gaming "journalism" promoted? And you all freak out at a woman? Do you think that is an accident? Do you think that is random?
  • “You'd have to have been hiding under a rock to not notice the news about feminism in gaming this year.”

    Oh, I am totally guilty. Any time this glances by, I skip it entirely and only know the story from its recount on GoodGame:

    Understand that I think anybody who tries to speak on behalf of a wholly varied community is largely stupid. It’s extremely overdone in some of the communities that I like to be apart of and to be honest, I feel misrepresented a lot of the time.

    A way that I would like it is for individual approach with maturation through exposure, with an emergent acceptance as a byproduct or second thought being a nicer, natural, more-genuine progression rather than forcing everybody to suffer war cries.

    Really there needs to be a bit of conversation so that we’re cognisant in there being a minority and so that we can realise to treat them right or give them safe harbour with those who would like to. I feel that more talk is actually detrimental to the cause at times because we over opine things. A bit of conversation coupled with maturation through time seems to be the best way to me.

    Etymology is too important and close generational wise, so I can’t imagine the term gamer dying. The phrase “bear cub” is pretty overused now with it being explained on Glee for instance but it will probably never go away. Homogenisation may blur the compound of something but its still there.

    Although this is quite contentious, I’d like to throw this out there. (I’m happy to be convinced otherwise) The gaming community isn’t so much growing up but growing outwardly encompassing more younger gamers and for the first time, more older gamers due to the entry point of the technology. I’d wager that the demographics have had a small self correction in percent distribution but will remain largely the same.

    Falsities are not appreciated, @AshGooner. You said noobies for boobies however I do not see your man boobies posted anywhere.

    Agree, agree, agree. @laphamking I agree with your general sentiments on a minority group then turning around to dish the same treatment to another minority group. I guess it’s like the bullied becoming the bully. I don’t properly understand the mechanics in this however it is rampant across most communities. Within gaming there is the PC master race vs potato divide, in the gay community there is the trendy gays vs the not-trendy gays, there are hardcore World of Warcraft players who sneer at newbies and etc etc.

    Greatly wish otherwise but I don’t think there will ever be any stopping this so long as people have egos. :(

    Giving attention to trolls might be what they’re after though. I’d be careful about being baited by assholes online while you’re trying to extend the olive branch. Perhaps we should instead build an online gaming community where people are accepted no matter how different? :P

    Orion, I don’t think anybody will seriously dislike you for being honest on your thoughts on the issue. I actually really appreciate your post; especially the second paragraph. We’ve never really crossed paths on the forum but you’re a solidly nice guy who I would be very happy to play games with.

    The blessing that is NooBTooB’s insulation means that I very rarely notice it as well.

    If you’d like to unskew your perception on origin of assholes, I’m quite happy to call you a faggot (with love from Australia).

    @Dr Flibble Sexuality plays nearly no part in video games but when it does it can be both horrible and wonderful.

    With the how do you notice bit? It’s exactly as you put forward. There are kids with lisps that are crucified online and I don’t even think they’re all gay but merely flamboyant at times. It’s unfortunate and I hope they find good company or that its eventually a non-issue with all the metrosexual men roaming about nowadays. Not quite speech lisping but hey, it should blur the lines a bit.

    On the latter point of it being wonderful, I went over to Proudmoore on World of Warcraft once and joined a gay guild. You know those Sex in the City scenes where the women sip their coffees in the city and gossip for hours on end? That’s what it felt like!! I have never been able to wax about how hot x, y and z man is whilst doing my mundane daily questing in WoW. It was fucking amazing and I really, really loved it. I also saw how reassuring it was to the younger players who saw that gay life entailed greater happiness and self when you got older.

    I know that people want to keep sexuality and gaming quite separate (and I know that you’re not one of them, Flibble) but it’s great when they can appropriately come together.

    Your analogy is hilarious.

    I agree strongly with your point on the free market and not forcing obligations. Inferencing that this game is anti-x group because it doesn’t feature a character belonging to x group is just looking for trouble. It was like that blip that was against shooting black zombies in Resident Evil when the game was set in Africa.

    @westsw I think you raise a good point about silence being quite damaging. It’s a hard balance to achieve and I don’t know what the answer is to be honest.

    I had a similar run in alike yours. I could not enjoy what is essentially most people’s game of the year - LOTR Shadow of Mordor because I was uncomfortable with just hunting down and killing again and again. The gore made me feel uneasy and I disliked how I felt like you know Dexter from that tv show? It’s weird because I loved Far Cry and most FPS games. But for some reason my stomach could not sit with Shadow of Mordor.

    @Epke It’s weird how much negative energy in lieu of positive, conjugative space there is, isn’t it?

    Let’s team up and make a visual novel!

    @Orion. There were three penises in Game of Thrones. Hodor’s, a blonde brothel worker’s (for Little Finger and claimed to not be for sale to Oberyn) and some other wang that was totally forgettable. All were flaccid.


    @Littleg I had to do a double take when you said you were on the older end of the spectrum. I still remember when you announced Littlerg and it doesn’t even seem that long ago to me though it probably is.

    I love this sentence: “but even back then that just sounded like the clueless insult-slinging of people out of touch.” I like your personal anecdote too. You totally type like a dad now.


    I don’t have much else to add on the topic except that the progenitor (gamer gate) seemed like a shitty event that spiralled out of control because of assholes/mob mentality. I reason it like that Reddit debacle with identifying the wrong person amidst a tragic incident (“We did it Reddit”).

    On the same lines, I think most people are decent and mostly good. I hope that out of all this we have learnt something if not just from pure exposure of variety and that our gaming culture keeps growing no matter the pains.

    PS. I really enjoyed this thread. I think everybody has valid points really; it just depends on what level we'd like to speak at and ultimately with our varied lives, it'll never be exactly in sync. I hope you guys still debate in the future and maybe even get a few games in together.
    Noobied by 18drawt
  • Well, I knew this topic would be a minefield and I was right!

    I appreciate the varied viewpoints shared by members here. I really do. It's interesting to see such a variety.

    I think there's some people who understood and then others who missed the point entirely... aside from what the industry is doing, aside from all the other crap about GamerGate and everything else going on in gaming, this tweet was about ownership and fixing issues. It's about taking responsibility.

    What are YOU doing to make people feel welcome in gaming?

    How have YOU owned up to the fact that maybe, just maybe YOU might be responsible for how unwelcome you made someone feel in an online session, or in a forum, or elsewhere in the larger community?

    What have YOU done (if anything) to change things/your behaviour/etc?

    I'll go first.

    - If I am uncomfortable with a situation in an online gaming session, people using vulgar language, racial and gender slurs, rape jokes, etc., I report it. I try not to stay silent anymore. Some people view this as 'ratting' or 'limiting free speech.' The way I see it: if speech is free and hate speech is illegal, I can easily disagree and I can legally report you for your hatefulness. XboxLIVE and most of the games I do play online with have reporting features. Thankfully, I haven't had to use it too much, only once or twice, and only in really horrible situations. Most times I spoke to the player in question first and we agreed to mutually turn off our mics and just play. That was a good solution, and it got all the crap out of the way. I encourage you all to first talk to abusive/harassing players first, then report them if necessary. Unreported, they get away with it.

    - Joining more girly communities, follow more lady gamers. To Flibble's point, if xyz makes you uncomfortable, find your fit. OK, let's try that. I'm looking for some good woman-focused communities. I follow people like Wu (who makes her own games, does her own podcasts) and Quinn on twitter. I try to focus on what they're creating and get over the GamerGate shit because frankly, it's destroying their lives and they have said they'd like to forget about it too. I also follow people like Felicia Day and our own former NT alum @Ar7ie (all the nerdy TV goodness, Dr Who, every vampire show ever, Downton, GoT, Buffy), @wtrswoopes (awesome achievement lady of awesomeness), and @BlasianBytch (not only a nerdy girl with mixed asian /black heritage but also a VERY outspoken sex worker and women's and minority rights activist). There are so many people from so many backgrounds it's ridiculous. I like Wu and BB because they focus as much on the issues surrounding them as gaming, and it's VERY INTERESTING READING! Sometimes it is exhausting too, to find they've been victims of discrimination yet again or to read about how Wu is being IRL harrassed when all she wants is to get on with it, that is, making games again. To me, it is TOUGH to find good, intelligent, non-omgitspinkandcuteandrolledinapuppy gaming commentary made by women for women. I haven't had a lot of time to really, really delve deep into it all. For example I'd like to look more into the Rooster Teeth community and find out who @OboeCrazy hangs with because they seem like some pretty rad gents and ladies. And I'm trying to hook up with some old friends back home to make more stuff online. So maybe, just maybe, I'll get back into that again. I don't know. Time-permitting. But I don't let that be the focus of my entire gaming life. To Sloth's point, being in a group with your people is awesome... sometimes it's nice to hear from other points in humanity and expand your worldview. This includes people from all kinds of walks of life, genders, races, minorities.

    - I acknowledge that often, I stir the pot of controversy, and that makes people uncomfortable. I like a good debate and discussion. I try hard to listen and not be judgmental. I try not to get angry as a result of civilized discourse, and I do walk away from arguments or discussions with trolls and others who don't listen to reason. Recognizing that there really is no 'winner' in these kinds of discussions is something I changed in my behaviour to allow myself to hear and understand others' points of view. It's a TOUGH thing to do when you have a competitive mindset (like me, and like many people who play games). It's a TOUGH thing to listen and not speak, when you're all worked up about a topic and passionate about it. It's part of why I gave this thread a good long time before replying.

    Hope you're all having wonderful New Years and that the world is good to you!


    Noobied by 1FirLocke
  • The Thing i noticed playing online in several types of online game is that in Japan, online gamers are more civil, it is in the western lobbies that male hormones overfloweth whenever a female is in the lobby.

    The most important rule is Don't be a Dick! 
  • Some years ago I've realized that while my approach to gaming might be very "hardcore" (striving to be good at whatever I do and research of the subject matter) at the core of it I am a recreational gamer, you can call it casual if it makes it easier for you to comprehend. Combine that with little free time to actually play games I want to my time to be as pleasant as possible.

    Therefor often when I play online I play  with friends or friends of friends and when strangers are introduced into my gaming habits, I make a frequent use of report and ignore features. I have no time or desire to deal with people that do not reinforce my idea of fun (In MMOs it's most often bad player and not necessarily abusive ones, somehow these two entwined more often than not)

    I see no need to be a part of some grand two hundred thousand group that I have no idea who is who and hence see no reason to govern or care what they do.Frankly, I am quite happy with  smaller social circle where I actually enjoy the company of people that I play with.
    Noobied by 1tallchick

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