More of that awesome level-headed not-totally-retarded feminism I keep hearing about.

  • If you watch this and agree with it, you're a fuckwit. It's that simple. No really, it is. And you are.
  • Well, the presentation is probably not to my taste, but the facts listed are true.
    Noobied by 1sloth
  • What Ash said - can't argue with the stats really, but I'd rather not have politicised children shoved in my face to remind me.  I did find the 'One, Two, Three, Four, Five: which one of us is it going to be?' part a bit distasteful but I suppose that's kind of the point, I guess?  Dressing up five young girls as princesses and then having them ask which one is going to get raped = bad, but then so is rape?
  • Maybe....
  • Flibble, since you clearly did not like the video too much, I'd recommend you take a stroll through the comment section, I'm certain you'd like that. Here's a comment left by one of the female viewers of this video:

    "First of all, let me start off by saying I am a feminist. Let me tell you why this bullshit is a piece of "fuckery". 

    "Pay Inequality"
    What feminists claim: "Women earn 77 cents less for ever dollar a man earns doing the exact same thing."
    This is actually the difference of the average full-time working man and woman, it does NOT take into account differences in occupation. This study does not take into account the different work decisions men and women make (occupations, positions, education, job tenure, hours worked per week). There was another study done where it tried to justify this fact by comparing men and women by in surface jobs, but they didn't specify what. It was just doctors, lawyers,..etc. They never specified which jobs they specialized in. Factually evident, women are proven to specialize in lesser paying jobs and many of them work more part-time than men do.

    "Rape & Violence"
    What feminists claim: "One in five women are raped or sexually assaulted in their lifetime"
    This was a study done by the CDC. They never asked the women if they were raped/assaulted or not, they described sexual instances where people either agree or not. If they were to ask the women flat out if they were raped, they would have gotten a lot fewer yeses. By describing sexual instances they got a higher number. A few examples of questions asked were, "Have you had sex under the influence of alcohol or drugs?", or "Have you ever had sex because someone had been telling you lies or promises of a future". The CDC did another poll asking both men and women if they’ve ever been raped, stalked, or coerced. Apparently it would be 1 in 3 women AND 1 in 4 men.

    Then they go on to talk about how women are overly sexualized. Men are just as sexualized. It's totally okay to make a movie like Magic Mike, but not okay to make a movie like that for women. Sexualization was created in both genders by lust, accentuated by women, accepted by men, now women hate it? Wut. 

    I am a feminist, but not a victimized feminist."

    I don't really care for the term "victimized feminist" as I feel that undercuts the overall issue; then again I also feel there's an incredibly loud minority in the feminist movement that have already damaged the point of feminism. There's still a silver lining through all of this, and that's the "He for She" movement that was started. Hopefully that will do some good for a lot of the real issues regarding gender issues in this world.
  • The presentation was unpleasant but many of the issues are very real.
  • rofl people are still parading the gender pay gap is a matter of professions falsehood

    does anyone actually read the government data on wages in the US?

    http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat39.pdf

  • Numbers without context means nothing. There's still varying questions of life choices that need to be examined, i.e. having children that do have a real effect on your compensation. Note: diminishing pay due to childbirth isn't entirely fair either. 

    I don't fully agree with the comment regarding rape either, I just wanted to post her full statement so Flibble could see that not everyone who labels themselves as a Feminist would completely agree with this video.
  • The numbers look overwhelming.

    Also, anyone who lives on Earth knows that more violence is done to women than by women.

    I find yelling, cussing little girls pretty annoying, but the issues raised are very real.
  • There is no wage gap. Only an effort gap. I also don't know of any laws that bar women from running in elections, getting elected, starting businesses, but yeah, blame it on the patriarchy anyway.

    More violence against women than by women huh? Yes, the world is just chock full of great mothers who don't beat the shit out of their kids. If you truly believe there are so many misogynist men in your society perhaps you could wonder why that is. I don't recall my dad ever telling me to go out and rape or beat up women, or anyone I know being told that. Ever. Yet we apparently have a misogynistic rape culture problem. *cough* BULLSHIT *cough*  Perhaps bad mothers are making all these misogynists? Or how about that most of the daycare, elementary, junior high, and high school teachers you expose your kids to are women. No? Patriarchy? We're still going to play that card? Of course, because to hold women accountable for their actions and choices, you know, regard them as true equals, now there's a line of thinking 99.9% of people are scared shitless of tackling. 

    You wingnuts couldn't think critically if your lives depended on it.

  • 50% of the population: Lazy.  Can't argue with that.  But I will stretch my feeble brain to attempt some of that critical thinking that you mentioned...

    There are some bad mothers that beat their children, therefore violence against women can't be an issue.  There are some good dads who raise their sons to be respectful to women and not use violence against them, therefore there must be no such thing as a Dad who, directly or indirectly, raises his son to treat women as objects rather than people.  Misogynists do exist (because of bad mothers, as established above), but where there is an environment in a professional setting where women will find it harder to succeed than men, it is because women are lazy, not because of any conscious/unconscious bias.

    Do you know what?  You're right.  Critical thinking is hard and I can't see anything wrong with those statements.

    Honestly, is there any point in dragging out this conversation, let alone re-animating it after two weeks?  Opinions are so polarised on either side and the whole world seems to have got stuck in a cycle of presenting opinions as fact that rationale debate seems impossible.
  • Yah know, Goodenough posted some pretty overwhelming data that women are paid less, across the vast majority of fields.  If you want to form an evidence-based counter argument, you will, by definition, need some evidence.  There is a quantifiable wage gap.
  • I think Laphamking addressed the issue. The are no known studies, to prove or disprove the point. While government statistical information is lots of valuable data it is not as accurate cut as you'd think. While both categories claim "full time" wage never it specifies the per hour wage, just averages of totals. If a men in general tend to work more hours it would realistically explain that on average they get paid more. And if I am not mistaken that are studies that show men working more hours per week than women.
  • Again, not to drag this out, and you're right that government studies are rarely perfect, but the UK Office of National Statistics data specifically uses hourly rates to try to discount for differences in hours worked:

  • But doesn't the same study (chart 12 to be specific) that you linked shows that women since 2010 forward make MORE money than men in Ireland? Doesn't that fact alone makes an entire statement as men on average are paid more than women as inconclusive?
  • Talk about cherry picking your data.  It would appear that in Northern Ireland, since 2010, women are being paid 5% more.  One outlier does not disprove a trend.  Just as snow does not disprove global warming, one lady making more than you does not make the paygap "inconclusive".  All the numbers posted would still fall into the "overwhelming" camp.
  • I am sorry to bring it up after a several month, as I just stumbled across it as I was looking at the threads.

    I've just reread the first two paragraphs on the linked article, And was surprised to see what they clearly state to prevent us doing what we exactly did.

    I'd like to point out that I am not trying to say that there is equality in pay between the genders, Just the fact that the line is much more blurry and not clear cut as it is presented.

    "Gender pay differences



    While there is no single measure which adequately deals with the
    complex issue of the differences between men’s and women’s pay, ONS
    prefers to use median hourly earnings (excluding overtime) for full-time
    employees. Including overtime can skew the results because men work
    relatively more overtime than women, and using hourly earnings better
    accounts for the fact that men work on average more hours than women
    .


    It should be noted that although median hourly pay provides a useful
    comparison of men’s and women’s earnings, it does not reveal differences
    in rates of pay for comparable jobs. This is because it does not
    highlight the different employment characteristics of men and women,
    such as the proportion of each gender in different occupations and their
    length of time in service."

    While it presents us with a fact that women are paid less than men, the interpretation of that fact is little fuzzy. How can you try and claim unjust distortion of pay when you do not take employment characteristics in mind?

    I might be reading it wrong but what I understand from that disclaimer is that for the data compares people with different experience in the field (heck it compares people in different fields) as equals (among other things). Is it nor reasonable to pay more to the person who has more experience in the field and is filling to work harder?







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