RIP Trevon Martin
  • So if you live in the good old US of A,you've probably heard this story and the contreversy its sparked,but to fill our foreign brothers in I'll post this article from CNN which breaks down the case somewhat.
    On the night of February 26, Trayvon Martin was wearing a hoodie and had bought Skittles and an Arizona tea at a convenience store in Sanford, Florida. Some time after that, he was shot and killed by neighborhood watch member George Zimmerman.
    But beyond those established facts about the shooting of the unarmed teenager in an Orlando suburb last month, much is in dispute about the case that has gripped the nation.
    Of the two people directly involved, Martin will never be able to describe what happened, and Zimmerman has kept mum. His lawyer vows that, once all the facts surface, things will not appear as clear-cut as they are to many of Martin's supporters at the moment.
    America will have to wait and see as State Attorney Angela Corey plunges deeper into a case charged with allegations of racism. Martin was African-American; Zimmerman is a Hispanic who, his family says, has been wrongly described as racist.
    What's clear is that, as more is learned about this case, it becomes more complicated.
    The little information that has surfaced has been through 911 tapes, what Zimmerman told police and the accounts of witnesses who helped paint a picture of the night Martin died.
    George Zimmerman
    Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket and blue jeans when he came across Martin on that night. He was a neighborhood watch member carrying a Kel-Tec 9 mm pistol, according to a police report.He said he was on his way to a grocery store when he spotted Martin walking through the Retreat at Twin Lakes, according to the Orlando Sentinel, which pieced together an account of what happened based on leaked information from investigators.
    Sanford police said the newspaper account "is consistent with the information provided to the State Attorney's office by the police department."
    Martin was visiting his father's fiancee, who lived in the gated community in Sanford, a racially mixed northern suburb of Orlando.
    Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person. He described Martin as black and said he was acting strangely and could have been on drugs.
    Zimmerman said he got out of his SUV and followed Martin on foot.
    "Something's wrong with him," he told a 911 dispatcher, according to the contents of a call released by authorities. "Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands."
    The teenager started to run, Zimmerman said. A 911 dispatcher asked Zimmerman whether he was following Martin, and Zimmerman said he was. The dispatcher said Zimmerman did not need to do that.
    Zimmerman said he lost sight of Martin and began walking back to his SUV; Martin approached him, according to the Sentinel account.
    Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem; Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.Martin said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, Zimmerman said, according to the Sentinel.
    Zimmerman said Martin pinned him to the ground and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. The police report described Zimmerman's back as wet and covered with grass, as though he had been lying on the ground.
    Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, the police report said.
    "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me," Zimmerman told police.By the time police arrived on the scene, Martin was dead from a gunshot wound in the chest, according to Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee. The unarmed teenager was lying face-down.
    Zimmerman told police that he shot Martin. And that he did it in self-defense.
    911 calls
    Residents of the gated community heard the gunshot.
    Seven 911 calls released by authorities document their fear.
    Someone screams, "help, help!" in the background.
    "There were gunshots right outside my house. There's someone screaming. I just heard a guy shot," a neighbor says. "Hurry up, they are right outside my house."
    Another man cries for help. Then the gunshot.
    "Hurry, please. ... There's someone screaming outside," a neighbor whispers. "There's a gunshot. Hurry up. ... There's someone screaming. I just heard a gunshot."
    In another call, a woman begs the dispatchers to send help, saying someone is "screaming and hollering" for help.
    Moments later, she describes a light at the scene of the shooting.
    "Oh, my God," she says. "There's still somebody out there walking with a flashlight."
    Zimmerman's call to police was among the 911 tapes released by police. Some people hear what sounds like a possible racial slur. CNN enhanced the sound of the 911 call, and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape but could reach no consensus on whether Zimmerman used a slur.
    Witnesses
    Mary Cutcher was in her kitchen making coffee that night with her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla. The window was open, she said.
    "We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot," she said.
    They looked out the window but saw nothing. It was dark.
    They ran out the sliding glass door, and within seconds, they saw Zimmerman.
    "Zimmerman was standing over the body with -- basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn't hear any struggle prior to the gunshot.
    "And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped."
    The two women said they could not see whether Zimmerman was bruised or hurt. It was too dark.
    "Selma asked him three times, 'what's going on over there?' " Cutcher said. "He looks back and doesn't say anything. She asks him again, 'everything OK? What's going on?' Same thing: looked at us, looked back. Finally, the third time, he said, 'just call the police.' "
    Martin's girlfriend
    Benjamin Crump, the Martin family lawyer, says Martin's girlfriend's account of what happened connects the dots and destroys Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.
    The girl, who did not want to be identified, said she was on the phone with the teen before the shooting.
    When Zimmerman got closer to Martin, she told her boyfriend to run, but Martin told her that he was not going to run, she said.
    "What are you stopping me for?" Martin asked Zimmerman, according to the girl.
    "What are you doing around here?" Zimmerman asked in response.
    The girl said she then got the impression that an altercation was taking place and that someone had pushed Martin, because the headset fell out of his ear, and the phone shut off.
    Zimmerman's friend
    Joe Oliver said he spoke with his friend Zimmerman on Monday. He filled Oliver in on what happened between the time Martin came face to face with him and when the gun was fired -- the part that's not all clear.
    Oliver said he could not divulge what Zimmerman said, just that the gun went off.
    Corey, the state attorney, was asked whether that meant the shooting might have been accidental.
    "We look into that in every shooting case," Corey said.
    Oliver said Zimmerman was badly hurt that night. He went to a doctor the next day to be treated for a broken nose.
    "He hasn't been back to his apartment, which is in that complex, ever since that happened, and he's being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder, for depression, for insomnia," Oliver said.
    "He cried for days after this happened. The George Zimmerman I know is not here anymore, because he knows that he took someone else's life, and he's extremely remorseful."
    Zimmerman has not been charged, sparking a firestorm of protest across America. Corey's homicide staff, meanwhile, continues to work round the clock.

    So that gives you a decent idea of the case so far from both ends(kinda).Look it up for yourself to get a full story if you wish,just want to get everyone in for a discussion.
    What are your thoughts?It's getting very out of hand but I know one thing:Trevon Martin was a scrawny,6'2 140 pd black kid and George Zimmerman was a bulky,5'9,250 pd hispanic vigilante of sorts from what i've pieced together who honestly thought he was doing the right thing.I just don't see how this kid could physically dominate and destroy this guy thats 110 pounds larger,and his case doesn't match up at all with the phone records.Plus,there was absolutely no reason to follow him especially since his comrades at the police station told him not to follow Trevon,and Trevon had skittles and an arizona fucking ice tea in his hand,and nothing else apparent.That's right,skittles and a fucking ice tea.
    It's becoming a huge race issue and there's rallies across the country in support of Trevon and such.
    What do you guys think though?Let's try and keep this as a news thread of sorts too as this develops.
  • If you think a 250 pound fat dude has a chance against an 150 pound dude who is fit, you're crazy.
  • I like how this has become a white vs. black issue even though the man who shot him is Latino.
  • Sunflower said:
    If you think a 250 pound fat dude has a chance against an 150 pound dude who is fit, you're crazy.

    He wasn't fit,he was scrawny as fuck.If he couldnt get him off of him then he must be 100 percent body fat w/ no room for muscle.I dont know any more than anyone else but if you look at Their pictures I'm pretty sure I'd put my money on Zimmerman in a fight.Also in the released videos Zimmerman appears to have no head trauma or the like which he and his attorney + family were suggesting on a side note.
    XxBarretxX said:
    I like how this has become a white vs. black issue even though the man who shot him is Latino.

    Yep thats the American media for ya.
    Also,Fox has pulled trailers for the movie "Neighborhood Watch" because of the case.It had Ben Stiller in it though so it probably isn't a loss either way.
  • For the most part I don't watch tv so this is the first that i have heard of this. I would say that it could be either of their faults but a life was taken and the watch guy had a gun on him. Every time I have been in a watch or had one where I lived people did not go walking around with guns. That was what the police were for. Your job was to look for things and alert the police when needed not take actions into your own hands. At the very least dude should get man slaughter because he had a weapon on him, he did not heed the dispatchers advise to not follow him.

    that's just my take on it but you still have to wonder why he had a gun in the first place.
  • I read bits and pieces about this story over here. Something about one guy brandishing a pack of Skittles and getting shot in return? I stopped caring once I read Skittles was attacked for profiting from the free advertising the case has generated and they had to apologise. People claiming to care about this case are losing sight of the real issue when a candy company gets dragged out for a bashing.

    It's a sad story, but it's not like gun crime is a rare story to come out of the US. It sucks that a young lad lost his life but the foreign press won't run with the story, in fact if not for the civil unrest it has created over there we wouldn't have heard about it at all, because like every story that comes from the US like this, people just shrug and say "well, take the guns away from the dumb ass public then" to which Americans respond "but we need them to protect ourselves from Skittle-wielders and people in Afghanistan". Heads are smacked, many a crocodile tear is shed, and we move on until it happens again.
  • somaliangangsterpuff said:
    What are your thoughts?It's getting very out of hand but I know one thing:Trevon Martin was a scrawny,6'2 140 pd black kid and George Zimmerman was a bulky,5'9,250 pd hispanic vigilante of sorts from what i've pieced together who honestly thought he was doing the right thing.I just don't see how this kid could physically dominate and destroy this guy thats 110 pounds larger,and his case doesn't match up at all with the phone records.


    I'm with Sunny on this one. A short fat guy vs a tall fit guy isn't a fair fight in the least. Once on the ground Zimmerman is fucked in a fight. Did a fight actually happen? We don't know yet.

    somaliangangsterpuff said:
    Plus,there was absolutely no reason to follow him especially since his comrades at the police station told him not to follow Trevon,and Trevon had skittles and an arizona fucking ice tea in his hand,and nothing else apparent.That's right,skittles and a fucking ice tea.


    Holding "Skittles and a Arizona fucking ice tea" doesn't make you a fucking innocent angel. It's only brought up in news stories to make him seem like a helpless child, which he is far far from being.
  • I didn't know much of anything from TV.. it hasn't reached me and my History Channel/ ESPN sometimes world. So I read the account here... and I still don't know a damned thing! It seems to me all of this happened cuz that latino dude got scared. He's the one with the gun, IMO he should be the one going down when it gets to this point.
  • The really amazing part of this story is the fact that Florida changed its guns laws. In a civilized society, you have a "duty to retreat" (with the exception in many states that you do not have to retreat from your home), if someone is being threatening, you must first try to withdraw from the situation. Florida passed a "stand your ground" law, that this case demonstrates the deep flaws in. In Florida, you can kill someone if you "feel threatened", you don't even have to try to disengage. Since dead men tell no tales, the current legal standard makes it surprisingly simple to kill and walk away. Clearly, Zimmerman courted a conflict. He followed the kid and thought the kid was a criminal, which was clearly untrue. Zimmerman initiated that conflict. It doesn't matter if he is such a tub that a large child was kicking his ass (I don't even believe that, BTW.) You should not be able to claim self defense when you pick a fight. But in Florida, apparently, you can.
  • The stand your ground law, plus armed neighborhood watch, is a recipe for disaster. Most neighborhood watch groups carry pepper spray at most. Jaded is right, it's pretty crazy that they walk around with them.

    We'll have to wait until all the evidence comes out, but Zimmerman disobeyed a police statement and appeared to have been in perfectly healthy condition when he came back to the station, and one attorney says he was originally to be investigated as a murder suspect but it was called off.

    None of the character smearing should matter here. Whether or not either of them was a good person or bad person doesn't change the fact that we have a dead minor on our hands who was unarmed.
  • GoodEnoughForMe said:
    We'll have to wait until all the evidence comes out,


    This is really the most important thing.
  • Might want to get the kid's name right if you want to appear as though you actually care about the issue.

    I have no doubt that if the police thought a crime was committed they would have acted. The law is the law regardless of if you believe it is the right or not. At this point, I believe the parents should just focus on getting the law changed more so than pursing Zimmerman.

    Personally I find it far more interesting how media, social media and celebrities are playing a role in this debate. First they only post pictures of a younger Trayvon in the news. Then they find "older" pictures of Trayvon that aren't him. And then Spike Lee goes and retweets the home address of who he thinks is Zimmerman. And instead its some little old couple who doesn't understand why they are getting death threat in the mail. Come on people, fact check! And Spike Lee, if that was George's address what do you think people would have done? If he was there and someone shot him, I'd think the family could sue your ass.
  • The idea of armed Neighbourhood Watch blows my British mind. Are they in any way accountable other than as a citizen carrying a firearm?

    Sunflower said:
    This is really the most important thing.


    Well, quite. But from the description in the OP it sounds as if proper evidence is going to be hard to come by, if there were no witnesses. I can understand why feelings would be running high, what a fucking mess.
  • [QUOTE=Littleg;339471]The idea of armed Neighbourhood Watch blows my British mind. Are they in any way accountable other than as a citizen carrying a firearm?QUOTE]


    The NRA is hard at work to make it legal to carry a gun everywhere. The NRA wants you to be able to carry a gun in bars, for God's sake. Because you may be too drunk to go home for your gun when you are mad, I suppose. The NRA is so powerful, that after multiple shootings, where extended magazines clearly added to the death total, it has been impossible to even outlaw 30 round clips for glocks. America is bugnuts when it comes to guns.
  • Littleg said:
    The idea of armed Neighbourhood Watch blows my British mind. Are they in any way accountable other than as a citizen carrying a firearm?


    Most of the time Neighborhood Watch is the idea of watching out for your neighbors. Making sure people aren't breaking into a house stealing stuff when you are at work or on vacation. Making sure your kid isn't talking to a sex offender. Its the neighborly thing to do and should something need to be dealt with, you are often encouraged to call the cops.

    Neighborhood Watch is not suppose to be a vigilante organization patrolling the streets with guns. That's the issue with this case because by pursuing the 'suspect' and ignoring orders from the cops, many feel Zimmerman then over stepped his role as Neighorhood Watch.
  • Yeah. Neighborhood Watch basically just means to keep your eyes open and report suspicious activity if something is happening to a neighbor or someone in your...neighborhood. It's not a mini-militia. Just people watching out for each other. Like Swoopes said.

    It's all about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

    I wish you guys across the pond would watch out for your neighbors, weird how it's a foreign concept :P
  • Yeah Sunny, this is clearly the case to sell the idea of Neighborhood Watch on. There is a line between watchfulness and paranoia, and listening to the 911 call, Zimmerman was clearly on the paranoia side of that line. Oh my goodness, a black male in a hoodie walking around at night!
  • Sunflower said:
    I wish you guys across the pond would watch out for your neighbors, weird how it's a foreign concept :P

    We do. England has a Neighbourhood Watch scheme, just we don't carry guns.
  • westsw said:
    The NRA is hard at work to make it legal to carry a gun everywhere. The NRA wants you to be able to carry a gun in bars, for God's sake. Because you may be too drunk to go home for your gun when you are mad, I suppose. The NRA is so powerful, that after multiple shootings, where extended magazines clearly added to the death total, it has been impossible to even outlaw 30 round clips for glocks. America is bugnuts when it comes to guns.


    My understanding is that it is legal to walk down the street with a gun as long as you have a concealed weapons permit and if you have taken all the 'safety' classes that goes along with that. I could be mistaken but that is my understanding. I know that I use to have a gun that I had to get a concealed weapons permit for once because I wanted it in a lock box for when I was taking the gun to the range to practice shooting it. Other than that though never went out with a gun into public.

    We should never have an armed neighborhood watch. we have to police department for a reason and by walking about with a gun you are taking over to police departments job. They are the professions that have been trained to deal with those things. I do not think that this is an issue of race but it could be. I think it is more to deal with a misunderstanding that should have never occurred in the first place.
  • westsw said:
    Yeah Sunny, this is clearly the case to sell the idea of Neighborhood Watch on. There is a line between watchfulness and paranoia, and listening to the 911 call, Zimmerman was clearly on the paranoia side of that line. Oh my goodness, a black male in a hoodie walking around at night!


    Well I'm not trying to sell it, just sayin. Chip did clarify they have a U in "neighbourhood" so I see why there was an issue. :)
  • Veri7as said:


    Holding "Skittles and a Arizona fucking ice tea" doesn't make you a fucking innocent angel. It's only brought up in news stories to make him seem like a helpless child, which he is far far from being.

    What part of "told Zimmerman not to follow him" did you not necessarily understand?And I personally am not sure if there was a fight but zimmerman and his lawyer and family are claiming that.Zimmerman seems like he's a pretty tough target to get to the ground especially for a seemingly scrawny kid like Trayvon seems to be.And how do you know he wasn't helpless?I doubt the kid could get Zimmerman off of him if Zimmerman was on top,either.If your doing the vigilante work Zimmerman did,you better be able to defend yourself without a gun,against even bigger targets.
    wtrswoopes said:
    Might want to get the kid's name right if you want to appear as though you actually care about the issue.


    It's been spelled both ways from what I've seen more commonly as Trevon.Was a rushed thread so I didnt really look over that too much.
  • somaliangangsterpuff said:
    What part of "told Zimmerman not to follow him" did you not necessarily understand?And I personally am not sure if there was a fight but zimmerman and his lawyer and family are claiming that.Zimmerman seems like he's a pretty tough target to get to the ground especially for a seemingly scrawny kid like Trayvon seems to be.And how do you know he wasn't helpless?I doubt the kid could get Zimmerman off of him if Zimmerman was on top,either.If your doing the vigilante work Zimmerman did,you better be able to defend yourself without a gun,against even bigger targets.


    I don't understand the quotes part. Where are you getting this quote? Cause it's my understanding that they told him it wasn't necessary to follow him. Would love to see evidence of police ordering him to stop. Did they pass a law that made it illegal to follow someone? But that's besides the point, who cares if he followed him?

    My point was I hate how the media tried to portray the victim before all the evidence had been presented. They're going to look real fucking stupid if it turns out the innocent Skittles boy attacked Zimmerman.
  • Veri7as said:
    I don't understand the quotes part. Where are you getting this quote? Cause it's my understanding that they told him it wasn't necessary to follow him. Would love to see evidence of police ordering him to stop. Did they pass a law that made it illegal to follow someone? But that's besides the point, who cares if he followed him?

    My point was I hate how the media tried to portray the victim before all the evidence had been presented. They're going to look real fucking stupid if it turns out the innocent Skittles boy attacked Zimmerman.


    I'm getting the quote from the phone call.They said "Don't follow him".It matters because the kid wouldn't had died if Zimmerman did what he was told to.He had no reason to be suspect from what we've heard about Trayvon's description at the time,other than him being black with a hoodie on.
    Why are you so certain there's gonna be some crazy twist and that Trayvon Martin is the bad guy?Florida is known for being a very racist state so it's not suprising for this kind of stuff to happen.
  • somaliangangsterpuff said:
    Florida is known for being a very racist state so it's not suprising for this kind of stuff to happen.


    Way to pigeonhole a whole state. Keep painting with that broad brush. Jesus...
  • somaliangangsterpuff said:
    Why are you so certain there's gonna be some crazy twist and that Trayvon Martin is the bad guy?

    In cases like this most media will report it in a sensationalist way, not necessarily report it accurately. If they can twist it in a way that it will get them more hits they will do so.
  • Sunflower said:
    Way to pigeonhole a whole state. Keep painting with that broad brush. Jesus...


    well certainly not most but a good amount more than the usual tend to be hicks or prejudiced in southern states typically and they have a long history of stuff like this.Plus add that when you give dumb people power it doesnt turn out well usually.Sorry if it offends but southern or midwest states tend to be where most(not all) or a better percentage then anywhere else in the states house hate/race crimes.
    In cases like this most media will report it in a sensationalist way, not necessarily report it accurately. If they can twist it in a way that it will get them more hits they will do so.

    Yes yes,but you still shouldn't EXPECT for everything they say to be a complete and utter lie.

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