Who Fucked the World the Most?
  • I have a history degree, so over the years, I've read about all of these attrocites that different nations have inflicted upon the world. I'm at a point now where I feel like I can blame a few selection nations as being "the nation that screwed the world over the most" but I'm not really sure if I can name one as the main bastard in all of this.

    In this topic, I'm curious what you think. Which nation is to blame the most for the world's problems we have today (in the modern era)? In the listing below, I'm going to give you a set of nations and explations of what I've come to believe are major players to blame. Feel free to discuss and tell me what you think.

    Who fucked the world the most?

    Spain - This nation sent Christopher Colombus first the the new world. It was because of Spain that billons of native South and North Americans died, lost their land, their freedom, and the peace that these 2 continents once had before the Europeans had. Spain looted the "New World" and send conquerers to enslave natives in Mexico and South America, stealing billions of dollars worth of gold and other precious quantities. After these nations gained independence, they were poor because much of their valuables were sitting in the Spanish treasury. Even to this day, South America is a very poor continent, and it all started because of Christopher Columbus. You could also argue that because of Colombus, the US would eventually be formed as a result, who in their own right has been fucking the world for almost 300 years.

    England/Great Britain - At one point, England owned 25% of the world. They had colonies on nearly every continent of the globe. They started out as a naval powerhouse, dominating the high seas, fighting wars in the New World with France, Holland, and other nations, eventually bullying everyone out of North America. England took many colonies in Africa, the poorest continent on the earth, enslaving many Africans, shipping many of them to the New World, enslaving populations to work for them on the African mainland itself. England instilled wealthy brutal leaders in their colonies to supress rebelion and to limit the rights of the conquered population. England set up nations like South Africa and their apartheid system which inflicted their native African population until the 1990's. In any case where a British colony was seeking independence, there was usually bloodshed, especially in nations like India and the USA where thousands died as a result of British Imperialism. Today, theses nations that Britain had colonies over, except for the USA, are still poor and have weak governments.

    Germany - It's hard to ignore World War I and World War II, a case in which poor leadership caused two of the greatest and most dispicable conflicts in world history to occur. German leader Otto Von Bismarck intentionally started wars witn Austria and France in order to unify his nation, killing people for power essentially. Then Kaiser Willhelm II aggressively attacked Europe, expecting a quick end to conflict, which instead turned into 4 years of devastating stagnation. Hitler came to power and killed over 6 millions Jewish people in the most inhumane mass killing of any people in human history, along with killing millions across western Europe and even 20 million in the Soviet Union alone.

    United States - The US, without a doubt, is the leading consumer in the world today, despite not having the highest population. Our nations absorbs the world's natural resources like crazy. The US is basically bleeding the world dry due to the leadership that exerts their influence over other nations. The US has been responsible for the killings of hundreds of world leaders through illegal force, promoting brutal dictators as leaders (like Pinochet in Chile or Mobutu in Congo, and Sadam Hussein in Iraq) rather than risk a peaceful communist leader. Speaking of communism, the United States own Central Intelligence Angency works guilt-free from any legal jurisdiction, killing and performing illegal acts as it pleases in the name of "national security." The US has escalated wars that were not necessary, like in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq, killing millions in the process. Now the US takes on the role as some demented "world police" figure, where they give money to nations around the globe but has the greatest national debt compared to any other nation.

    China - The world's most populous nation, they are quickly emerging as a world power which many fear. Many say that China will soon be the greatest consumer in the world due to it's size and growing economy. China has been known to have very poor human rights violations, forcing children and poor workers to work endless hour days for very little money, all for the benefit of the economy. China is quickly becoming the world's #1 polluter in the world, and yet there is very little concern apparently for the environment. In the end, China is sacraficing human rights and basic environmental preservation plans for simple economic gain. A bit selfish according to some.

    Russia/Soviet Union - For the majority of the 20th century, the Soviet Union dominated the Eastern Hemisphere as the largest national powerhouse, eclipsing multiple nations under the Warsaw Pact, forcing millions to work in a system where people have limited human rights, poor working conditions, little pay, and no ability to question the government. Following World War II, every nation that the Soviets freed from Germany were then taken over by the Soviets. They never left. Nations like Poland and Ukraine were forced to live under oppressive dictators for over 50 years. Today, these nations are still relatively poor due to the number of years under the corrupt control of mother Russia. Joseph Stalin alone is said to be responsible for the deaths of 20 million Soviet citizens during his reign of power.

    France - While not performing well in wars, France can be held responsible for many problems in Africa and Southeast Asia due to their colonies. Much like England, they were involved with the Carving of Africa, exploiting the workers for the benefit of the European mainland nation. Following their occupation by Germany in WWII, they turn around and try to re-occupy Vietnam in the same brutal way Germany had occupied them; how could they not learn anything from this? As a result, Vietnam erupted into civil war. France had their African colonies fight for them in World War II, but failed to give the African citizens any credit for helping since they were viewed as inferior conquered people. If you go back farther than that, French Normans invaded the British Isles in 1066, which set up the governments that lead to what we know as modern Britain today. Technically, anything you can blame England for started because of French invaders.

    So that's my general list. Who do you think is the worst offender of all? If I'm missing something let me know. Let's get a good discussion going.
  • Humans, I think. In general.
  • At the risk of pissin all over your debate I feel I must give my answer is simple, yourself. Only you can change your destiny, the world is what it is. This sounds very corny because it is... and I just want to beat myself up over it :|

    But to redeem myself my greatest hatred lies in the country I live in, the country that has spurred on such a steep technological climb that really it's so out of control we don't even know how to control it. Is this only the US' fault though? Absolutely not. The US is just the player that I know the most about. Sometimes I'd rather a lot of technology just slowed to a trickle and they just released the cure for cancer they got. Greed and curruption is my number 1 issue and it seems a majority of it comes from the US.
  • Chris de Burgh.
  • thomas midgley
  • Those damn Canadians!
  • This is tough. Before I got to the point of having to name a single nation I was pretty convinced "Europe" was the answer, but to pick a single nation...

    There's a couple things to consider here, in my opinion, that being what we can directly tie to a nation, and how long a nation has fucked the world over, because this often means that the remnants are still kicking today. This is where it gets difficult. For example, the US has exerted large influence on the world, and escalated some very violent wars and paramilitary groups, but it's a relatively young superpower without a huge history, and hasn't had a Stalin or Hitler or Mao to its name. Because of this, it hasn't had the colonialism influence on the modern day world like some other longer superpowers. Arguably its biggest claim to infamy is slavery and its undo affects on Africa, but it was hardly the only instigator.

    Secondly, we're looking at "the modern world" here. China has a long history of terribly brutal rebellions and civil wars, but it has almost always stayed within its borders, as China has traditionally been very isolationist. It's hard to say that it has fucked over the world. Really the only worldwide concern is the pollution issue, but that's way too young I believe.

    Ultimately, I am leaning towards either Great Britain, or France. One reason:

    Spoiler:
    image


    That is a map of the world in 1904, with colonial powers highlighted, and the countries they held. African colonialism has largely contributed to the fact that Africa is the most war-torn, famine-torn, poverty-torn, and disease-torn continent on Earth. Colonialism only encouraged and brought out old and new ethnic conflict, impoverished the native population, and created strife that remains alive and well to this day.

    Food for thought, European lead colonialism killed more people than The Holocaust, and the famines/genocides in China and the USSR. Combined. And most of the colonialism can be tied to four or so European powers.

    Great Britain, the largest imperial power and holder of colonial governments would probably get my nod, as their crimes even extended outside of Africa. Congrats!
  • Oh cmon people, this is a historical discussion, throw some mud, be eurocentric, offend some people, jeez!

    In the defence of Britain, France, and the US... they were and are major drivers of progress. With these 3 countries you cover like 80% (pulling the number out of my ass) of all cultural and scientific output we have had in the world in the past 400 years. I wouldn't want to miss that. These are also the countries that brought us the representative democracies we live in today and most of us prefer those over the alternatives. Yes, all of them caused lots of suffering and they are hypocritical as hell, but whatever...
    You can make similar arguments for Germany, but it's generally less significant in the grand scheme of things, I think, arguably...

    For China we need to add Mao's fuck ups on the bad side and really that's the main one. I see China in transformation and its only now a proper impact elsewhere... lets talk about Chine again in about 50 years, shall we?

    Russia/USSR.
    .. ooo, tough one. The great social experiment of the 20th century that failed so badly. USSR was a huuuge step up from the Empire, and it was way less oppressive than, say, Nazi Germany, East Germany, North Korea etc... well, post-Stalin that is... I guess, the problem is that it led so many other countries down the path of communism... bad even there I am not sure that it was all that bad (would take too long to explain why)... I sound like a commie

    Now Spain... oh my, what a royal fuckup of a country. I can't say anything good about historical Spain... Nah seriously, till the end of the Franco regime, with a couple little break in between, it is just a series of awful regimes that do as much wrong as possible. It is remarkable how much political influence this country gained (and lost). Lets make a real quick list:
    Reconquista. Destruction of one of the most important cultural centres in Europe.
    Genocide, pillaging, raping, enslavement of the Americas.
    Retarded rulers.
    Worst administration of a country ever.
    Inquisition.
    Laziness... yes, I am not kidding.
    Progressive thought is hindered and delayed as much possible.

    But in the end I choose the Roman Empire. Why?
    Considering the amount of innovation and progress we saw in the hellenistic world in a relatively short period of time, it is staggering to see the seemingly complete stagnation that this Superpower brought. Yeah, they brought roads and aqueducts to places, but with them they brought a culture unable to create things of their own. Rome learned from other people, but didn't learn by itself.
    With this standstill the Roman Empire set us back by 1000 years. So fuck yo, dirty filthy Roman scum! (Note: Its not racist when the people in question died 2000 years ago)

    Discuss. :P
  • France is fine since their just a bunch of pusses and they've known not to try anything.China's threatening yes,but they fuck their own citizens more than the world itself.Russia's a little worse but same goes for them plus their some poor bastards nowadays.America is often perceived as arrogant and ignorant but we're a young country that eats up loads of resources but makes up for it by not having any horrible dictators.More of drama queen dumbasses that think they have to get into everyone else's buisness all the time(as a country in our history.Plus,they were and are only here because of the english and spanish,so any fucking they do is technically their fault :) .Germany's wrong doing is mostly Hitler fucking Germany into being blamed for fucking everyone else he fucked.Spain has a history of being swarmy thieves,but I'm going to go with England.They owned everything back in the day,picked on poor Africa who's STILL in the shitter even now,spawned America who's done what I mentioned before and I honestly think they kinda take the blame for the U.s's wrong doing in that sense IMO.Plus alot of other shit.I've written too much already and I kinda lost track of what exactly my stance was fully here but may I suggest you put Korea up there?I don't know about you but they seem like some pretty bad apples to me(plus they've done more shenanigans as of late than the others.
  • Fuzzy said:
    I have a history degree, so over the years, I've read about all of these attrocites that different nations have inflicted upon the world. I'm at a point now where I feel like I can blame a few selection nations as being "the nation that screwed the world over the most" but I'm not really sure if I can name one as the main bastard in all of this...

    England/Great Britain - At one point, England owned 25% of the world. They had colonies on nearly every continent of the globe. Today, theses nations that Britain had colonies over, except for the USA, are still poor and have weak governments.

    So that's my general list. Who do you think is the worst offender of all? If I'm missing something let me know. Let's get a good discussion going.


    In regards to your comments about England, you seem to be pretty selective with your facts and broooooad with your generalisations. Australia isn't poor, and doesn't have a weak government; India isn't poor; and it could be argued that the USA has a weak government, in that any government that doesn't have the support of it's citizens could be described as weak. Canada doesn't have a weak government, and it's certainly not poor.

    CRC
  • Tragically, it's probably us :( , Britain were dicks for good length of time there. Although I think at least some of the Commissioners and Regents that were put in charge of other countries had fairly high ideals (going back to what I learnt from Simon Schama's History of Britain TV series, here). Sadly, that was probably far outweighed by all the times we stirred up local antagonisms to keep the natives fighting amongst themselves and too busy to boot us out. Also, I think there's a decent argument to say that we invented the concentration camp with our handling of the Boers during the Boer War in South Africa...

    I think someone else has mentioned it, but you missed the Cultural Revolution in China, Fuzzy - that killed millions as well.

    Finally, it'd be interesting to think of this in terms of the last 10 years or so. Have Pakistan and Afghanistan fucked us all by turning a blind eye to radicalism in their own country, allowing the creation of terrorist cells that carried out 9/11, leading to the West's invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, which in turn has only served to radicalise more people against us, exposing us all to more risk of terrorism? Arceloh won't thank me for this, but have Greece and Iceland fucked us all by boning the world economy?
  • Venus. They had a thing back in the day.

    In terms of who made Earth a worse place to live. Nickelback.

    Seriously though, I would have to say Nazi Germany. Not just because they killed millions of people, but because they did it in the most horrific way possible.
  • Oh, that's not the most horrific way possible, although horrific probably is in the eye of the beholder. Far from it.

    Check out Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Check out Genghis Khan, and some even more ancient battles in which the entirety of the population of city states are put to the sword. Check out some of the tactics used by militia in Africa today. Hell, check out what Pakistani husbands do to their wives who they suspect are being unfaithful. Check out what colonists in Australia did - very close to successful genocide.

    Makes what the German's did in WWII, as terrible and disgusting and abhorrent as it was, seem like the lesser evil.

    We're a bloodthirsty bunch.

    CRC
  • come on people really? poll pot, Hitler, its Religion off course.
    Atrocities done in the name of god, jews were hunted down long before the Nazies. They blamed anything on the jews and don't forget the spannish inquisition.
    image
    it even continues to this day with the pope say no to condoms with AIDS, moslim shaira, female curcimcision, stoning of infidels, killing daughters when seeing non-moslim dudes.
    Religion fucked the world the most!
  • The Spanish Inquisition is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. By European standards at the time, it was almost peaceful. It resulted in about 8 executions a year. Pretty sure Texas has that beat. Although they did do a lot of torturing, but less than most of the rest of Europe.

    Heck, The Massacre of the Ulster Plantation had more deaths in a few days than the Spanish Inquisition had in its entirety. Antagonize the Catholics for that.

    Great Britain again, too. Just sayin'.
  • GoodEnoughForMe said:
    The Spanish Inquisition is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. By European standards at the time, it was almost peaceful. It resulted in about 8 executions a year. Pretty sure Texas has that beat. Although they did do a lot of torturing, but less than most of the rest of Europe.

    Heck, The Massacre of the Ulster Plantation had more deaths in a few days than the Spanish Inquisition had in its entirety. Antagonize the Catholics for that.

    Great Britain again, too. Just sayin'.


    I am not talking just about monty python ;) but i meant Religion as a whole has killed more people than all the dictators together

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