Episode #213 - 12/06/2010
  • Show Notes

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  • hey tobin and yuzo, great episode i loved your comment telling people to settle the fuck down and that you keep 1 big relase game a week, dont ever change guys.
    I cant wait for the GOTY episodes
    YOW
  • Great show, although i do not agree on Apache air assault as being realistic, played the demo, and found it not that difficult, try to fly the helicopter in bad company 2 now that is hard
  • Great episode, as usual, guys! From what you guys have said it seems like Fable III turned into exactly what I expected it to. I've also heard the game is completely littered with bugs. Anyways, keep up the good work and I can't wait for your end of the year best game lists!
  • yer i acctually liked appacje air assult it was quit fun to play.........drunk
  • Great show as always!

    I've been using Your Shape for a few weeks now and I agree with Tobin, it is an excellent workout that does need a lot of room to function. But if you have the room for it I think it works perfectly, has a great variety of programs and functions, and does an excellent job of tracking your progress.

    My boyfriend recently bought EA Sports Active while visiting and was trying it out, and he was very disappointed in the heart monitor. He used to be a registered nurse, so he was already pretty skeptical that this cost an extra $40, but on top of that it didn't work half the time. The unit wouldn't track his heartbeat for half the workout, and then would often track it wrong. There was no way 20 minutes into the workout that he had a rate of 54 bpm! He said the workout overall was decent, but he noticed the same issues Yuzo had with the animations being janky and cutting off in areas, and for the price he was considering returning it and getting himself a copy of Your Shape.

    ...now when do we see the Tobin/Yuzo Dance Central dance off?! :D
  • I have just listened to the audio for Episode 214. About the Donkey Kong review:

    Donkey Kong doesnt need a double jump (or mid-air jump). If donkey kong does get a double jump, then Retro Studios would have to create the levels much bigger to avoid the player from reaching hidden areas. And about the "O" thing that yuzo discovered, well, the 'barrel roll jump/ cartwheel jump' was also in the original DKC games. Actually, it was pretty much the most move when it comes to grabbing hard to reach areas. If anything, it is a unique feature apart from other platformers. examples from others are the 'triple jump' in Mario 64, and the 'wall kick jumps' in megaman x.

    About the difficulty. I think this game is made for the fans who loved the original DKC games and tried not to 'casualize' the gameplay. Any easier, then i'd feel the same like how i felt about Mario Galaxy 2, being, most of it was too damn easy. I truly think about this game is for hardcore fans (like me) tickles the exploration and experimentation of trying to get every puzzle pieces and the KONG letters. With this, this game has a solid reason for what i want most games, replayability.

    About the presentation. What shined throughout this game is each individual stages and how it brings you the great rush of split second decision and precise timing. All of that while the game's stages are trying to whoop your ass. The best thing i can compare it to is the moving set pieces in Uncharted 2, only DKCR does this to nearly every level. I had a wow'd face the entire time when i first played.

    with all that said, I currently think that this game beats out Mario Galaxy 2 in my choices for Best Wii game this year,
    -GeN
  • The thing is about the 'casualization' of AAA titles like Fable 3, is it really selling BETTER because of the concessions made? I'd say no - even though I am a core gamer, I haven't heard of anyone picking up Fable 3 and liking how simple it was to do things. Just wanted to toss that out there.
  • I think developers are mistaking a casual game for being an easy game, but I don't think this is necessarily the case. A casual gamer still wants a challenging and interesting experience, it's more of a time factor.
  • Sunflower said:
    The thing is about the 'casualization' of AAA titles like Fable 3, is it really selling BETTER because of the concessions made? I'd say no - even though I am a core gamer, I haven't heard of anyone picking up Fable 3 and liking how simple it was to do things. Just wanted to toss that out there.


    ^^ I'd tend to agree with this.
    Are people running out to buy xboxes because of Fable 3's easiness? No.

    Why was the Wii Fit so popular then?
    - Good price for the console and the game and peripheral, at the time
    - Fitness games were a new thing, and so was the wiimote.

    That's it, IMO.

    I think MS is still trying to catch up to the electrofit fad with Kinect, and I think it may not give them the return they're looking for because it's like almost a decade too late.

    I'm still looking forward to the development of the hologram :D lol
  • I mean holodeck :D
  • Sunflower said:
    The thing is about the 'casualization' of AAA titles like Fable 3, is it really selling BETTER because of the concessions made? I'd say no - even though I am a core gamer, I haven't heard of anyone picking up Fable 3 and liking how simple it was to do things. Just wanted to toss that out there.


    Have you seen the actual sales numbers? Fable 3 topped both the US and UK charts on release and is still selling pretty well.

    http://www.huliq.com/10177/fable-3-leading-us-charts-week
    http://www.qj.net/qjnet/news/fable-3-tops-uk-sales-charts.html

    Honestly, I think a lot of folks bashing Fable 3 are core gamers (myself included), but that franchise has been the most casual of any RPG series and it's apparent that Molyneux is getting on the "make gaming mainstream" track by all of the game design decisions we see. If Madden is poster boy for being a "game that non-gamers play", then I think Fable wants to be the RPG that non gamers play, and it is doing a fairly decent job of it considering how many non-gamers I know at work that seem to be excited for the game.

    Is this a bad thing? Probably so if you're a fan of Fable. Another way to look at it is just an overall increase of gaming market. It's not as if the game industry will all of the sudden stop making "core" games, the demand is still huge. A nice side effect of a bigger game market is also a bigger core market as casual players "graduate" into core players.

    If the core market gets bigger, than that means more games will be made to chase those dollars. That is a good thing.

    Yw
  • yuzo said:
    [quote=Sunflower]The thing is about the 'casualization' of AAA titles like Fable 3, is it really selling BETTER because of the concessions made? I'd say no - even though I am a core gamer, I haven't heard of anyone picking up Fable 3 and liking how simple it was to do things. Just wanted to toss that out there.


    Have you seen the actual sales numbers? Fable 3 topped both the US and UK charts on release and is still selling pretty well.

    http://www.huliq.com/10177/fable-3-leading-us-charts-week
    http://www.qj.net/qjnet/news/fable-3-tops-uk-sales-charts.html

    Honestly, I think a lot of folks bashing Fable 3 are core gamers (myself included), but that franchise has been the most casual of any RPG series and it's apparent that Molyneux is getting on the "make gaming mainstream" track by all of the game design decisions we see. If Madden is poster boy for being a "game that non-gamers play", then I think Fable wants to be the RPG that non gamers play, and it is doing a fairly decent job of it considering how many non-gamers I know at work that seem to be excited for the game.

    Is this a bad thing? Probably so if you're a fan of Fable. Another way to look at it is just an overall increase of gaming market. It's not as if the game industry will all of the sudden stop making "core" games, the demand is still huge. A nice side effect of a bigger game market is also a bigger core market as casual players "graduate" into core players.

    If the core market gets bigger, than that means more games will be made to chase those dollars. That is a good thing.

    Yw[/quote]

    Well said Yuzo. I have heard many of my non-gamer friends talking about it aswell. Personally, I have heard terrible terrible things about it, and I believe it's a console only game.
  • SgtWaffles said:
    Well said Yuzo. I have heard many of my non-gamer friends talking about it aswell. Personally, I have heard terrible terrible things about it, and I believe it's a console only game.


    It's releasing for PC. So you get to share in the casualization of it as well (even though the PC is the birthplace and where casual gaming thrives)
  • Peter M. should just make a new title. Fable is his the worst work. Why he stopped making strategies? Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, the Movies? Those were great games which I am still playing. But Fable... I was really excited about this game and waiting very long to play it and... In the end it totally disappoint me.
    It is not a bad game, but it wasn't that what I waited for. Idea was so great, damn.
  • yuzo said:
    [quote=Sunflower]The thing is about the 'casualization' of AAA titles like Fable 3, is it really selling BETTER because of the concessions made? I'd say no - even though I am a core gamer, I haven't heard of anyone picking up Fable 3 and liking how simple it was to do things. Just wanted to toss that out there.


    Have you seen the actual sales numbers? Fable 3 topped both the US and UK charts on release and is still selling pretty well.

    http://www.huliq.com/10177/fable-3-leading-us-charts-week
    http://www.qj.net/qjnet/news/fable-3-tops-uk-sales-charts.html

    Honestly, I think a lot of folks bashing Fable 3 are core gamers (myself included), but that franchise has been the most casual of any RPG series and it's apparent that Molyneux is getting on the "make gaming mainstream" track by all of the game design decisions we see. If Madden is poster boy for being a "game that non-gamers play", then I think Fable wants to be the RPG that non gamers play, and it is doing a fairly decent job of it considering how many non-gamers I know at work that seem to be excited for the game.

    Is this a bad thing? Probably so if you're a fan of Fable. Another way to look at it is just an overall increase of gaming market. It's not as if the game industry will all of the sudden stop making "core" games, the demand is still huge. A nice side effect of a bigger game market is also a bigger core market as casual players "graduate" into core players.

    If the core market gets bigger, than that means more games will be made to chase those dollars. That is a good thing.

    Yw[/quote]

    Ok, ok; ya got me there. Yes Fable 3 has some pretty boss sales figures. But I question if some of that isn't based on the fact that the last two also did really well, and it's the third in a series? What about other more casual titles on the market? What is the overall trend that you see Yuzo?

    FWIW, I'm playing Fable 3 right now and the only thing I really REALLY hate about it is the inventory system/shop system (you can only buy maybe ten things from each shop, more likely 2 to 5.... selection greatly diminished).

    There are other things that mildly disappoint me:
    - I am disappointed that in the time between Fable 2 & 3 the graphic feel has changed little and the engine is more of the same.
    - I'm not keen on the fact that you have to waste guild seals in order to upgrade to social factors.
    - I don't like the saving system.
    - Seems to be buggy, makes my X360 chug.

    I would describe myself generally as more of a casual gamer, and this game has a light feel to it that I like (Coming from the RPG lover that just 1000ed Oblivion :lol:). I've said it before and I'll say it again... if you're looking for depth, wicked combat systems, etc.... Fable is *not* the game series for you. I actually don't mind the combat (yes it gets mashy; but there's nuances in the way you mash buttons that allow you to get combos and stuff similar to the fighting in Assassin's Creed, and the magic system I find much improved). But I will say that the collector in me is being tickled in all the right places... if there's a hardcore element in this game, that's it. Finding all of everything, and doing the achievements.

    Course, this is just my opinion, others will no doubt disagree. :D
  • I felt Fable 3 was a giant leap backwards. I also hated the a lot of the changes they made, why mess with the shop and menu system (which were fine to me) and not make combat better?

    I liked the combination of spells, but it was annoying that spells from fable 2 were now potions and it was hard as hell to stock up on anything because of the limited inventory system.

    grr frustrating!
  • Heh, you're both definitely preaching to the choir here :).

    Fable 3 had some serious issues that has pretty much killed any anticipation I'll have for future releases in the franchise. I'd say the best thing they did was clarify the story into something memorable, and do an amazing job on the writing and voice casting/direction. Every other decision they made with the game took it further away from what I want in an RPG, and while that's their prerogative, they'll also have to live with the fact that many other core gamers will feel the same and fall by the wayside.

    My guess is that if they can replace people like us with 10X more casual players paying the same $60, they'll likely not care. Which makes me a little sad, but there are so many amazing games that do cater to my tastes that I honestly don't think I'll miss Fable much.

    My only regret is that they didn't spend a little more time trying to balance the needs of making the game more accessible while still retaining the bits that core gamers love. Doing this is _really_ hard to do, but companies like Nintendo still manage to do it with games like DKC:R and SMG2, and I know Lionhead has the folks that can figure it out. If they don't want to do it with Fable, I hope they come up with a new franchise that can.

    Yw.

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